Legislature(1993 - 1994)

09/21/1993 09:00 AM House TAA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
                   HOUSE TASK FORCE ON ALCOHOL                                 
                        AND ALCOHOL ABUSE                                      
                          Nome, Alaska                                         
                       September 21, 1993                                      
                            9:00 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Brian Porter, Chairman                                        
  Representative Eldon Mulder                                                  
  Representative Jim Nordlund                                                  
  Representative Richard Foster                                                
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Joe Sitton                                                    
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  Public testimony on alcohol abuse.                                           
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES, Director                                                        
  Division of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse                                        
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110607                                                              
  Juneau, AK 99801                                                             
  465-2071                                                                     
                                                                               
  VIRGINIA TURNER                                                              
  Alcohol Use Prevention Coordinator                                           
  Department of Corrections                                                    
  P.O. Box 2145                                                                
  Bethel, AK 99559                                                             
  543-5389                                                                     
                                                                               
  CRISTY WILLER TILDEN                                                         
  Program Director                                                             
  Bristol Bay Area Health Corp.                                                
  P.O. Box 130                                                                 
  Bristol Bay, AK 99576                                                        
  842-5266                                                                     
                                                                               
  LOUIE JONES                                                                  
  Police Officer                                                               
  Dillingham Police Department                                                 
  P.O. Box 130                                                                 
  Dillingham, AK 99576                                                         
  842-5266                                                                     
                                                                               
  REGGIE JOULE                                                                 
  P.O. Box 51                                                                  
  Kotzebue, AK 99752                                                           
  442-3601                                                                     
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN                                                                
  Norton Sound Health Corp.                                                    
  P.O. Box 966                                                                 
  Nome, AK 99762                                                               
  443-3344                                                                     
                                                                               
  ARDYCE TURNER                                                                
  Substance Abuse Education andPrevention Department                           
  YKHC                                                                         
  P.O. Box 1153                                                                
  Bethel, AK 99559                                                             
  543-4061                                                                     
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH SUNNYBOY                                                           
  YKHC                                                                         
  P.O. Box 1568                                                                
  Bethel, AK 99559                                                             
  543-3854                                                                     
                                                                               
  SOPHIE NOTHSTINE                                                             
  KAWERAK                                                                      
  P.O. Box 948                                                                 
  Nome, AK 99762                                                               
  443-5150                                                                     
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY, Manager                                                      
  Turning Point Detox Center                                                   
  P.O. Box 1890                                                                
  Nome, AK 99762                                                               
  443-5577                                                                     
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE ONE, SIDE A                                                             
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The meeting was called to order by Chairman Porter at 9:50                   
  a.m.  Chairman Porter gave his opening remarks.                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  First of all, thank you very much to                       
  Representative Foster for coming and getting us and                          
  providing the logistical support for the first of the task                   
  force's meetings here in Nome.  This Alcohol Task Force is                   
  comprised of myself, Representative Brian Porter.  And the                   
  other task force members are Representative Richard Foster                   
  here from Nome, Representative Eldon Mulder from Anchorage,                  
  Representative Joe Sitton, who is not able to be with us                     
  today from Fairbanks, and Representative Jim Nordlund is                     
  here.                                                                        
                                                                               
  I would also like to initially call the task force members'                  
  attention to the task force book that we have prepared by                    
  the staff of my office.  The staff of my office happens to                   
  be the one person sitting right behind us, Eric Musser, and                  
  I would like to thank him very much for compiling a very                     
  comprehensive book to get us a very firm foundation of                       
  examining the problem of substance abuse and alcohol abuse                   
  within the state.                                                            
                                                                               
  I would like to, if you haven't already, call the members'                   
  attention to the Ombudsman's Investigative Report which                      
  calls to our attention the need for evaluation programs --                   
  the Department of Corrections' substance abuse program,                      
  which during this year's session we have heard an awful lot                  
  of testimony about the requirements of the Department of                     
  Corrections and indications that apparently most of the                      
  inmates therein are there as a result of substance abuse                     
  problems.  Within the framework of that, we (inaudible)                      
  information especially from the testimony that was received                  
  by the sentencing commission.  The Alaska Judicial Council                   
  report is also very interesting.                                             
                                                                               
  That basis really was the inspiration for House Speaker                      
  Barnes to appoint this task force, to look at the overall                    
  state policy, statutes and law that are aimed at dealing                     
  with the state's alcohol abuse problems.  We have, as I've                   
  discussed with most of you, we have no fixed agenda.  We're                  
  not going in with any presumptions about the extent of the                   
  problem or what is really necessary to correct it, with the                  
  exception I think of two assumptions and one conclusion that                 
  are somewhat fundamental.                                                    
                                                                               
  One of the assumptions is that Alaska has had and still has                  
  a myriad of problems caused by alcohol abuse and more                        
  problems that are exacerbated by alcohol, the abuse of                       
  alcohol and other substances.  While these problems                          
  continue, as with the case with state programs, resources to                 
  address these problems are diminishing.  Consequently, it                    
  would appear mandatory that this task force look for                         
  programs that will provide measurable results that can                       
  identify potential as well as existing problems and                          
  individuals and deter potential alcohol abusers and redirect                 
  those primary abusers.  I guess it's also fair to observe                    
  that the problem that we are attempting to deal with is one                  
  that has plagued this state and our nation, for that matter,                 
  for decades and that there is no one quick and single                        
  answer.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Existing responses to the symptoms or the problems,                          
  whichever they turn out to be, can be found in the                           
  philosophies of the field of education, health service,                      
  public safety, social programs and many others.  What we                     
  would like to do is hear from as many of these disciplines                   
  as possible and learn their perspectives of the problems and                 
  their solutions and to get perspectives from as many members                 
  of the public as possible.  (Inaudible) this information we                  
  would like to see if there are any obvious directions for                    
  the state to take in terms of coordination, innovation, or                   
  for that matter, elimination of programs.  At the very                       
  least, we would like to see this task force develop a list                   
  of items of apparent promise and to deal with these                          
  individually during 1994.                                                    
                                                                               
  I would like to note our recognition of the work presently                   
  being done by the Alaska Natives Commission, the joint                       
  federal/state board looking at all issues affecting Alaska                   
  Natives and look to receive their input as it would relate                   
  to the same topics that we're addressing.                                    
                                                                               
  With that in mind, we will begin taking testimony.  That is                  
  as I hope is appropriate, and we appreciate his presence,                    
  the Director of the State Division of Alcohol and Substance                  
  Abuse, Mr. Loren Jones.  Welcome Mr. Jones and please turn                   
  yourself on and talk to us.                                                  
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Okay, thank you Representative Porter.  For                    
  the record, my name is Loren Jones.  I am the Director of                    
  the Division of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse for the Department                 
  of Health and Social Services.  We welcome this task force,                  
  uh the division, uh is always attempting to determine from                   
  local programs and from local providers and the public what                  
  kinds of services we should provide and what the local                       
  programs need and want to address those pressing issues                      
  locally.  I was scheduled for an hour of testimony.  I don't                 
  think I'll take that long, but I would like to just sort of                  
  give you a little bit of background on the division, how                     
  we're organized, what some of our purposes are, to describe                  
  some of the efforts we have done to address some of the                      
  issues raised in the Ombudsman's report, as well as to                       
  address issues we feel are facing the field of alcohol and                   
  drug abuse and inhalant abuse, and then to take a minute to                  
  describe some of the resources available, some of the                        
  programs available in the communities, that I believe are on                 
  the teleconference or potentially on the teleconference                      
  today, so that you have an idea as you listen to the people                  
  from the various communities what kinds of services are                      
  available there and where we feel they may be lacking                        
  services and what kinds of issues are there.                                 
                                                                               
  I also have brought with me as much information as I could                   
  sort of glom onto to hopefully answer any questions that you                 
  might have either after my testimony or during the day if                    
  the opportunity presents itself.                                             
                                                                               
  The division is a division within the Department of Health                   
  and Social Services.  We became a division in 1990 by                        
  executive order.  Prior to that we were an Office of                         
  Alcoholism and Drug Abuse.  We have an advisory board that                   
  is made up of 12 citizens appointed by the Governor.  There                  
  are currently 11 members on that advisory board.  The                        
  statutory authority for our division is found in AS 47.37,                   
  which lays out the duties, responsibilities of the division,                 
  lays out the philosophy of the state regarding alcoholism                    
  and intoxicated persons.  Within that chapter is also the                    
  involuntary commitment act for those persons who do not seek                 
  treatment on their own and for whom individuals responsible                  
  for them feel that they need to be committed, give guidance                  
  to the court as the courts reach that decision as to whether                 
  to involuntary commit.                                                       
                                                                               
  Our board has a status under AS 44.29.  That again lays out                  
  the duties of that board which are basically to advise the                   
  department and the commissioner on issues relating to                        
  alcohol abuse, drug abuse and inhalant abuse.  This task                     
  force is set up as an alcohol and alcohol abuse task force.                  
  My division also has responsibilities for drug abuse issues                  
  and inhalant issues.                                                         
                                                                               
  At the federal level we are now being required, as a result                  
  of federal block grant funding, to be somewhat responsible                   
  for tobacco, even though within our department of Health and                 
  Social Services tobacco is structurally under the Division                   
  of Public Health.  Along with CDC's recommendation, the                      
  Center for Disease Control, and other federal officials, we                  
  are now being required to do some things in terms of                         
  violence prevention as well as its related to use of                         
  substance abuse in schools, weapons in schools, the advent                   
  of gangs, those kinds of things, youth violence.  We're                      
  slowly being required at the federal level to deal with that                 
  as part of our overall prevention efforts.  The other task                   
  forces (inaudible) in terms of alcohol and alcohol abuse.                    
                                                                               
  My division's responsibilities are quite broad.  We are                      
  basically organized into three sections.  We have an office                  
  in Juneau that is basically the policy section, the                          
  management information section and our administrative                        
  section where we do all the grants management.  We have two                  
  offices in Anchorage.  One our Anchorage field office which                  
  has seven staff members that is responsible for the quality                  
  assurance program and responsible for providing the                          
  technical assistance and grant support to all the various                    
  local programs that are funded out of our division.  AS                      
  37.37 also requires us to establish standards for quality                    
  treatment programs and to apply those standards to both                      
  public and private treatment agencies.  So we do an on-site                  
  to give a certificate of approval to every program that says                 
  they provide alcohol or drug abuse treatment.                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  What title is that now?                                    
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  AS 37.37.130 I believe.  So we do review the                   
  programs at Providence, Charter, private psychologists,                      
  private programs like that as well as state grant funded                     
  programs.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Our third office in Anchorage is the Anchorage Alcohol                       
  Safety Action Program and it's located in the Court                          
  building.  They have two responsibilities:  one is to                        
  provide direct services to the Anchorage court system for                    
  misdemeanant offenders referred by the court system.  The                    
  Alcohol Safety Action Program started out to be programs                     
  that dealt with drunk drivers.  Currently the Anchorage                      
  court system in particular and many courts around the state                  
  are now sending other alcohol related misdemeanant                           
  offenders.  Our Anchorage case load is about 50% drunk                       
  driving offenders and 50% other misdemeanant offenders.                      
  Step down felonies that deal with alcohol related violence,                  
  domestic violence cases, assault, burglaries, those kind of                  
  misdemeanor cases that are in fact alcohol related are                       
  referred to the ASAP office.  That has made our case load                    
  there increase in the last six or seven years by almost 200%                 
  with no increase in staff.  Also these (inaudible) ASAP                      
  programs around the state to various nonprofit agencies,                     
  they do the same function.                                                   
                                                                               
  The second function of the Anchorage ASAP office is to                       
  provide technical assistance, quality assurance and                          
  oversight of the other grantee programs that do the Alcohol                  
  Safety Action Program.  The task of the ASAP is to assure                    
  there is continuity and that we offer the same services to                   
  each court system.  We have a standardized assessment                        
  process, standardized protocol for handling the cases,                       
  referring them on for other treatment or education and also                  
  getting back to the court if they are noncompliant with                      
  either their treatment or their education.  That is the only                 
  direct service that the division operates.  All services                     
  provided in the State of Alaska for the direct prevention,                   
  intervention or treatment of alcoholism, alcohol abuse, drug                 
  abuse and inhalant abuse are done through local nonprofit                    
  grantees or municipal government.                                            
                                                                               
  The grant in aid authority that we operate under is AS                       
  47.30.475-500.  It lays out the conditions for granting                      
  funds to local programs. It lays out the match requirement,                  
  which is 10%, and they also lay out the requirement for                      
  local plans, local needs assessment that are required of the                 
  local programs.  We're only allowed to grant to nonprofits                   
  or municipal arms of government.  We may not provide any                     
  funds to profit corporations, and by federal law we cannot                   
  provide any funds to inpatient treatment.  The inpatient                     
  that is available in Alaska as within the private sector and                 
  it is funded through either private health insurance or                      
  first party pay.                                                             
                                                                               
  We recently in FY 92, toward the end the legislature, passed                 
  HB 545 which permitted Medicaid to begin paying for                          
  substance abuse treatment.  To date, regulations have not                    
  received approval to implement that program and so no                        
  program has yet to receive any Medicaid funding.  It is now                  
  authorized and we are trying to get the regulations through.                 
  That would provide Medicaid funding for some residential                     
  care and mostly outpatient treatment care for those                          
  individuals who are on Medicaid.  However, the way in which                  
  the Medicaid program operates, under the program refinancing                 
  scheme, we will be required to pay the match to Medicaid,                    
  which means that we reduce the grants to the local program                   
  in the amount we think they will achieve when they start                     
  billing Medicaid.  So that there is some gain we are                         
  basically replacing general fund dollars with 50% federal                    
  and 50% general fund instead of 100% general fund; but under                 
  that scheme of trying to refinance, we're not able to                        
  increase the amount of services available.  We're basically                  
  staying flat.                                                                
                                                                               
  Our budget, and I know it's in the book that Eric had put                    
  together, a budget summary for you from about 1984 forward,                  
  and as you'll notice we reached a relative high in FY 92 and                 
  in FY 93 we took a decrease of about $1.2 - 1.3 million, and                 
  for FY 94 we took an additional decrease of $500,000.  Some                  
  of that was in state money and some of that was in federal                   
  funds.  The legislature has also changed the nature of our                   
  funding, as has the federal government.  We receive a                        
  federal block grant from the Center for Substance Abuse                      
  Treatment.  The Center for Substance Abuse Treatment is                      
  within the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services                        
  Administration in the Department of Health and Human                         
  Services within the federal government.                                      
                                                                               
  Prior to FY 93 the block grant was combined with mental                      
  health.  In FY 93, under the reauthorization of block grant                  
  was split between mental health on one side, as a separate                   
  block grant, and alcohol and drug abuse service as a                         
  separate block grant.  When we did that, we had a reduction                  
  in funds come to us because they took a higher percentage of                 
  that money for the mental health block grant that had                        
  previously been done.  At the same time, the legislature                     
  over the last three or four years has continued to increase                  
  the amount of general fund dollars that come from the mental                 
  health trust into our budget and decrease the amount of                      
  general fund.  In the largest grant component in my BRU, I                   
  have about $900,000 of general funds out of $17 million.  $2                 
  million is federal, the rest is from the mental health                       
  trust.  What this has done is to...                                          
                                                                               
  One of the criticisms of the Ombudsman's report was that our                 
  mission statement didn't necessarily give us a direction to                  
  go that we could show that we had some impact and we didn't                  
  do very much of a needs based assessment and we didn't put                   
  our money where there's the best chance of having a good                     
  return come from.  One of the federal statutes and federal                   
  block grant requirements, ...we have to spend 20% of our                     
  federal block grant on prevention.  We have to spend 35% of                  
  our block grant on alcohol abuse programs.  We must spend                    
  35% of our block grant on drug abuse programs, and                           
  increasing to 20% now on women's only services.  If you add                  
  that up it comes to 105%.  We're also allowed to take 5% for                 
  administrative costs, which we do.  We can double count in                   
  the fact that people who do receive alcohol services may be                  
  getting prevention services, women may be getting drug abuse                 
  services, and those kinds of services give the ability to                    
  double count.  But it does place some restrictions on how we                 
  can spend the money, irrespective of what our plan might                     
  say, irrespective of what we might desire.  We might want to                 
  spend 90% of our money on alcohol, but we are precluded from                 
  doing so.                                                                    
                                                                               
  In addition, under the mental health proposed settlement and                 
  under the court ruling, the beneficiary of the mental health                 
  trust is the chronic alcoholic with psychosis.  There is a                   
  definition of law.  There is no clinical definition of a                     
  chronic alcoholic with...  therefore, the mental health                      
  board, acting as trustee, believes the legislature has erred                 
  in assigning 86 to 90% of my budget to the mental health                     
  trust because they feel that less than 25% of the clients we                 
  serve are in fact chronic alcoholics with psychosis.                         
  Therefore, we tried desperately not to fund prevention                       
  efforts from the mental health trust dollars and try to use                  
  general fund dollars.                                                        
                                                                               
  Specifically, drugs are not mentioned in the mental health                   
  trust settlement so we try to use general fund and federal                   
  dollars for drug abuse funds as well.  That is increasingly                  
  hard to do when you have a decreasing general fund dollar                    
  and an increase in mental health trust dollars to honor the                  
  basic law from the court that says the beneficiary of the                    
  trust is a chronic alcoholic with psychosis.  So we've sort                  
  of been placed in a box that makes it difficult to put the                   
  funding where individuals feel it is best needed, to make                    
  sure that the programs, as they serve the client, who                        
  doesn't care if they are a beneficiary of the mental health                  
  trust, doesn't care if they are in a box at the federal                      
  funding level, but do care that they get the appropriate                     
  service that they want to solve their issue they have with                   
  alcohol and drug abuse or inhalants.                                         
                                                                               
  That is a problem that we faced that we don't know a ready                   
  solution to.  The administration's position is that the                      
  legislature has established that policy that alcohol                         
  services will be funded from the trust, that by their                        
  appropriation of those funds they have expanded the                          
  beneficiary.  The mental health board feels that is not the                  
  case, that the legislature needs to pass a statute that says                 
  their standing as the beneficiaries of the trust which under                 
  the court ruling they are allowed to do.                                     
                                                                               
  So then, trying to plan down to the level of services under                  
  some of the recommendations of the Ombudsman, we do run into                 
  some of those financial considerations that pose a problem                   
  for us.  In addition to the fact that inflation eats into                    
  the treatment and prevention dollars of the local programs,                  
  the fact that we reduced their programs the last two years                   
  in a row, you can add to that whatever inflationary factor.                  
  We went back and looked at our budget from 1984 forward to                   
  1994 and we started out in 1984 and we just added a simple                   
  3% inflationary factor so that you get a basic... if we had                  
  gotten a 3% increase every year... what our funding level                    
  would be, we are well below that level with FY 94, so that                   
  the impact of inflation, the impact on increased health care                 
  costs, the impact on fixed costs for residential costs where                 
  you have fuel oil dollars that go up and electricity costs                   
  that go up and you have staff costs that go up and you have                  
  increasing social security costs that go up and an                           
  increasing costs of doing business and a decreasing amount                   
  of funds coming into local programs, has really put a lot of                 
  programs on the brink.  Just not being able to provide the                   
  level of service they currently provide and certainly not                    
  the comprehensive level of service they think they need to                   
  adequately serve their particular areas.                                     
                                                                               
  Under 47.37 the legislature has laid out what they feel is a                 
  comprehensive program and this comprehensive program must                    
  include an emergency care, it must include residential                       
  treatment, it must include outpatient care and it must                       
  include after care and follow-up.  We attempt to provide                     
  that level of care and at least Level 3 communities and                      
  Level 4 communities.  Level 1 and Level 2 communities we                     
  have a reduced level of that care.  Within health planning                   
  Level 1 communities would be small villages, Level 2                         
  communities would be health communities, I believe that Nome                 
  falls under a Level 3 community, a population over 2500 to                   
  3000, so we do have a level of care that sort of determines                  
  what we are willing to support in a local community.  Within                 
  those realms then the local communities have some ability to                 
  change services to make those services more appropriate for                  
  the local community and I'll explain a little of that in a                   
  minute.                                                                      
                                                                               
  We have many issues that face our division and face the                      
  alcohol and drug abuse and inhalant field in the next few                    
  years.  The issue of the increasing realization of the                       
  dually diagnosed population, those who are mentally ill and                  
  are also substance abusers, there are liberal debate raging                  
  at various places, not as heavy in Alaska as it is in other                  
  places, over what the extent of that population is and                       
  what's the appropriate way to address and treat that                         
  population.                                                                  
                                                                               
  There are definitely a significant number of individuals who                 
  are mentally ill that abuse alcohol and drugs.  They do that                 
  as part of their mental illness, they do that as a method to                 
  medicate themselves, they do that as a method to try to                      
  solve some of the mental health problems; they may also be                   
  physically addicted to alcohol or drugs and also be                          
  diagnosed as suffering from alcoholism or drug addiction.                    
  In addition, there are significant number of persons who are                 
  alcoholic or drug addicts who are not mentally ill, who do                   
  not have a diagnosable mental illness, and they may exhibit                  
  at times the same diagnostic characteristics.  But periods                   
  of absence and a quality recovery program and those symptoms                 
  tend to go away.                                                             
                                                                               
  It's a difficult process in some communities so separate                     
  those two and that is an issue that we are constantly                        
  dealing with, both at the federal level and within Alaska.                   
  Emergency care is a problem in that we try to provide some                   
  level of detox or emergency care within most of the hub                      
  communities, but that is expensive and not always available.                 
  And there are differences of opinion as to how you should                    
  provide that.                                                                
                                                                               
  Anchorage is a prime example, where several years ago they                   
  used a public inebriate reception center, tried to hold                      
  people there.  It was relatively inexpensive.  There's a lot                 
  of individuals who didn't want to go on for detox, which is                  
  more expensive level of care.  They dropped that and now                     
  have expanded the size of their detox, trying to sort out                    
  how to deal with the homeless population, trying to deal                     
  with the street people.                                                      
                                                                               
  In a community like Nome... they have a five bed detox in                    
  this community that refers people into a residential                         
  treatment program.  In Bethel there is no detox program.                     
  They have... its been a difficult process for the community                  
  of Bethel to decide whether they want one, how they would                    
  operate it, how it wouldn't be (inaudible) just a revolving                  
  door institution for people who were ill, who needed to go                   
  on to further treatment, but simply use this to be safe in                   
  the wintertime and to get a little bit of their health back                  
  and then who refuse to go on to further treatment.  That is                  
  a relative expensive level of care.                                          
                                                                               
  There are many communities that would like to use the                        
  involuntary commitment act that is part of AS 47.37.  They                   
  have asked that we as a division look at revising that                       
  portion of the statute.  With all of our other priorities we                 
  have not had a lot of time to look at that.  Several years                   
  ago, then Senator Uehling had a bill in that would have                      
  changed that.  It ran into some significant problems with                    
  some communities over the way it was worded.  It ran into                    
  some problems with confidentiality issues and what could be                  
  shared in a court hearing from clinical treatment records                    
  and what could be not and some of those issues just didn't                   
  get resolved before the Senator was no longer in office.                     
                                                                               
  Some communities use it very well, other communities do not.                 
  Two or three of the major problems with it is that it does                   
  not guarantee treatment.  If you were mentally ill and you                   
  were committed under the mental health commitment statute                    
  you have a right to treatment.  If you can't be treated in                   
  the local community, than you can be committed to API.  That                 
  is their final back-up if they can't use the local hospital,                 
  if they can't use the hospital in Fairbanks, then their                      
  backup is API.                                                               
                                                                               
  Under the alcohol commitment statute there is no right to                    
  treatment.  If the court commits the individual and there is                 
  no treatment available in that community, then they have to                  
  try to find another bed someplace else, and if that's not                    
  possible, then the individual does not get admitted even                     
  though the court has involuntary committed them to a                         
  treatment program.  We're not funded to guarantee that                       
  there's beds available.  We're not funded to pay for the                     
  transportation.                                                              
                                                                               
  As an example, you could have an individual in Wrangell that                 
  has an outpatient program.  You get the individual care                      
  committed, there's no beds in Juneau, there's no beds in                     
  Ketchikan, there is a bed in Fairbanks.  How you pay for the                 
  transportation to get that individual from Wrangell to                       
  Fairbanks, that's not part of our current budget stream,                     
  it's not something that we have felt the statute gives us                    
  the responsibility for.  Sometimes they'll get that donated,                 
  sometimes the person can pay part way, sometimes the program                 
  pays, sometimes the program will pay half the cost, the one                  
  way ticket.  After the person's been through treatment, then                 
  the person's responsible for the return flight.                              
  So those are a couple of the issues facing them.  Also,                      
  because it's not within the same (inaudible) as the mental                   
  health, if the local program does the commitment, they have                  
  to get their own attorney.  Under the mental health statute,                 
  it's the state that is committing this person to the                         
  community mental health center and the state Attorney                        
  General's Office represents the state's interest in                          
  committing this individual.                                                  
                                                                               
  That is not the case under the involuntary commitment for                    
  alcoholics.  It may be an issue that this committee may want                 
  to look at more closely or ask some questions of those who                   
  do use the commitment act.                                                   
                                                                               
  I believe that John Dapcivich from the City and Borough of                   
  Juneau has done a look at the involuntary commitment act and                 
  looked at public inebriate services and I think he sent that                 
  report up to Representative Porter's office.  If he didn't,                  
  I'd be sure to get another copy.  He looked at those issues                  
  as they were done in Sitka, Petersburg, Ketchikan, Anchorage                 
  and Fairbanks.  I came to Anchorage and just had a meeting                   
  and I'll get you a copy of that.  I thought that he had said                 
  that he had sent that up.                                                    
                                                                               
  In addition, I think you'll hear during the course of this                   
  testimony, even though this is on alcohol and alcohol abuse,                 
  I think you'll hear increasing requests for services to                      
  young children for inhalant abuse.  It is a growing problem                  
  in recognition and I think in actuality, in rural Alaska                     
  especially, but some in the urban community, we have been                    
  attempting to deal with that existing services with existing                 
  programs and I don't think that we are being very                            
  successful.                                                                  
                                                                               
  We have the Norton Sound Health Corporation here in Nome                     
  apply to us, to the federal government for a inhalant                        
  treatment program at White Mountain.  We have some                           
  indication that there might be a chance that might be                        
  funded.  We should know hopefully be the end of this month,                  
  the first part of October.  If that happens, it will be one                  
  of only the second inhalant abuse treatment programs that                    
  have been funded by the federal government.  One is in South                 
  Dakota, a program called Our Home or Our House and so the                    
  Nome area would have the second one in the nation that was                   
  funded specifically for inhalant abuse.                                      
                                                                               
  We still have the recurring issues of drug abuse, ups and                    
  downs, some increasing cocaine issues facing treatment                       
  providers.  That seems to be an increasing drug of choice as                 
  people come into treatment.  It is still overwhelmingly                      
  alcohol, but we are seeing more of that.  Even though some                   
  of the public safety issues and some of the major arrest                     
  issues and stuff are down somewhat.  We are continuing to                    
  see an increase in people that are coming into treatment for                 
  cocaine use.                                                                 
                                                                               
  We have attempted in the six or eight months since the                       
  Ombudsman's report came out and since we went through                        
  legislative hearings in the budget process to answer some of                 
  the questions, and Representative Porter certainly raised it                 
  this morning in terms of finding out which programs work,                    
  what the emphasis of the programs are, how effective they                    
  are.                                                                         
                                                                               
  We have done this in three ways.  First of all, the House                    
  Finance Subcommittee had originally proposed some intent in                  
  the budget that would have required all of the programs to                   
  do outcome research and to determine the efficacy of their                   
  individual programs.  That intent never made into the final                  
  budget process, but we did put a special condition in all of                 
  our treatment grants that asked them if they had done                        
  follow-up studies, if they have checked on clients after                     
  treatment, if they have done any of that research, that they                 
  are to submit a report to us by the first of December so                     
  that we can compile that information and present it to the                   
  legislature in some summary form.  Also, so that we can look                 
  at are they using a common definition of outcomes, are they                  
  using the same approach, is there something here that we                     
  might be able to learn from and could institute that across                  
  all of our programs?  We hope that we will get a good report                 
  from that.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Secondly, we hired a college intern this summer who has been                 
  working in our Anchorage ASAP office.  She has been taking a                 
  sample of cases that were referred to the ASAP office in                     
  1989 and then using the public safety's computer system, the                 
  Alaska Justice Information System, she has been going                        
  through and seeing if any of these individuals have repeated                 
  the offense for which they were sent to ASAP; i.e., have                     
  they done another drunk driving offense, have they committed                 
  any other offenses over the years 90, 91 and 92?  That data                  
  analysis should be completed by the first part of October.                   
                                                                               
  We then applied to the Department of Public Safety, through                  
  the Highway Safety Planning Agency, for money for a                          
  professor at the University of Alaska to analyze that data.                  
  Just as I was leaving yesterday, I found out that that will                  
  probably be funded, but we won't know for another week.  And                 
  if that is funded, then hopefully by the time the                            
  legislature comes in we will have that report available from                 
  the University in terms of how well at least the Anchorage                   
  ASAP office is doing.                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Who's is that Professor?                                   
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Sharon O'Raji                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  What University?                                           
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Sociology Department, University of Alaska                     
  Anchorage.                                                                   
                                                                               
  And third, we were able to convince both the Commissioner                    
  and the Office of Management and Budget to use a portion of                  
  capital funds that were earmarked for Mental Health Trust                    
  facilities for beneficiaries, to use some of that money to                   
  put together a more standardized follow-up project for both                  
  rural and urban out-patient and residential programs.  We                    
  have set aside $250,000, we have received authority from                     
  General Services and Supply to sole source this contract                     
  with a program called New Standards Incorporated out of                      
  Minnesota.  They used to go by the name CATOR, which is a                    
  Comprehensive Alcohol Treatment Outcome Research Project.                    
  It is a firm that has gained a significant reputation in the                 
  field and among other states starting out first in the                       
  private sector and now working more in the public sector in                  
  attempting to do some standardized treatment follow-up that                  
  allows you to compare both between programs and compare                      
  programs of like in other states, in other places.  They                     
  have maintained a fairly large, expansive data base of                       
  services.  We are in the process of negotiating that                         
  contract now.  Hopefully the data collection will start in                   
  December.  The final, final results will be 2-1/2 years from                 
  that time.  The reason for this is that follow-up studies                    
  are extensive, expensive and need a lot of time.                             
                                                                               
  We are going to collect data for a year.  That means that                    
  when a person enters the treatment programs that we select,                  
  they will be given the standard assessment that that program                 
  does, as well as a standard assessment from CATOR.  If                       
  they're in a residential program, they will be given the                     
  same instrument at discharge from the residential program.                   
  If they are in an outpatient program they will pick a time                   
  certain, usually a month or two months after they begin                      
  treatment, and they will do this discharge summary.  Then                    
  all that information is collected at the local program level                 
  and sent to CATOR.  They put those all into their computer                   
  data base and begin the analysis of, What is the profile of                  
  the client as they come in the door?  What is their                          
  employment status, their health status, their legal status,                  
  their diagnostic categories, educational level, marital and                  
  family status, use of social services agencies, all of those                 
  things that are harmed within a person's life by their                       
  substance abuse.  They will then contact that person at six                  
  months and 12 months from the time of discharge to determine                 
  what their status is on all those same variables so we can                   
  see how they've improved, which clients improved the best                    
  within what kinds of treatment and also what information                     
  will be available back at the programs.  Some preliminary                    
  data will be able to come out at nine months and 12 months                   
  because we will at least have intake information and we will                 
  know what our client population looks like, different from                   
  our management information system.  To do that level of                      
  follow-up to give you the scientific validity, that you did                  
  the appropriate sampling, that you got enough clients so                     
  that you're statistically correct, that if this is not an                    
  anomaly, takes a significant amount of time and effort.                      
                                                                               
  We are going to try, I think, to collect the initial                         
  information on roughly 1,400 clients.  CATOR is hoping that                  
  700 to 800 will still be able to be found and followed up 12                 
  months after their discharge from treatment.  We do expect                   
  some attrition.  People will refuse, they'll change their                    
  mind, they won't want to talk on the telephone, there will                   
  be all kinds of other issues that will be raised for people                  
  who drop out, but we're hoping that effort will come about.                  
  We will have that contract and the scope of the work                         
  available when the legislature... so we will be able to walk                 
  that through the budget committee and the other legislative                  
  committees if they're interested.                                            
                                                                               
  In addition, we have put together a group of individuals                     
  called our Strategic Planning Team that represent the                        
  providers in the field, that represent the Departments of                    
  Corrections, the Department of Education, within our                         
  department the Division of Public Health, the Division of                    
  Family and Youth Services and the Division of Mental Health                  
  into a strategic planning team that has been looking at                      
  three things:  one, at our mission statement, what we're                     
  about, why we exist, where we should go from here, and to                    
  basically try to put together a strategic plan for our                       
  division that will both push and pull us into the future and                 
  not keep us mired as much in the past as I think some of our                 
  plans have been rightly criticized for being.  The first                     
  draft of that plan will be presented to our advisory board                   
  in Fairbanks on Thursday.  On Friday and Saturday they will                  
  be holding public hearings in Fairbanks on that plan.  We                    
  are reviewing it within themselves, making comments back to                  
  us.  We will then take the month of October to finalize                      
  writing it.  The last two days in October, I think the 28th                  
  and 29th of October, we will bring our strategic planning                    
  team back together to take one more look at that product and                 
  then by statute that product will then go back to the                        
  commissioner's office and then to the Governor.  I believe                   
  it's AS 47.37.040(10), requires us to develop a plan for the                 
  Governor, and so this plan will be presented to the Governor                 
  and hopefully he will accept that plan and then we will be                   
  on our way to basing our fees for the next budget cycle, the                 
  next grant cycle.  Hopefully that will address some of the                   
  issues addressed in the Ombudsman's report.                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Let me interject here if I may and I hope                  
  (inaudible)  vote that my voice is not getting all the way                   
  to Bethel.  I hope it is now.  I'm a little closer to the                    
  mike.  If not, let me know and I'll put it in the back of my                 
  head.  I recognize that obviously for final approval that                    
  that draft plan for your division would have to go the                       
  Governor's office.  I would appreciate it if you could find                  
  out for us whether or not this task force could be made                      
  aware of what that plan contains prior to that with whatever                 
  restrictions the Governor's office might want to put on it,                  
  to the extent that we could perhaps have input from the                      
  information that we're gaining to suggest inclusions for                     
  dilution's or amendments to that plan before it gets etched                  
  in stone and has to go through another lengthy process.                      
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  I have assumed that at the October 4th                         
  meeting, which was after our board had met that, 1) there                    
  may be some testimony from those who attended that meeting,                  
  at least the front section I believe I was going to try to                   
  get to the task force.  What we had the most difficult time                  
  crunch on is when you get down to the nitty gritty of                        
  defining the goals and trying to put those in the                            
  appropriate outcome measures.  It's harder to get agreement                  
  and that is the weakest part of the draft to date and that                   
  is the part we will work on through October and the end of                   
  October at the strategic meeting, (inaudible) and then                       
  philosophy on some of the research and the background behind                 
  that, I'm planning to provide the task force on October 4th,                 
  after our board had looked at it and made their comments and                 
  so we will provide that.                                                     
                                                                               
  And then as soon as that plan has been approved by the                       
  strategic planning committee, if the Commissioner desires, I                 
  will make sure you have it as early in November as I can                     
  before your December 1st hearing to make sure you do have                    
  that available.                                                              
                                                                               
  Just a couple other things and I guess I will stop for some                  
  questions and allow other people to testify.  I have an                      
  opportunity through several other hearings to say other                      
  things.                                                                      
                                                                               
  One of the issues that you talked about in terms of                          
  coordination and cooperation between other programs...  This                 
  division, with it's divisional status, certainly does                        
  attempt to coordinate as best we can with other divisions                    
  within our own department.  Sometimes that's easier and                      
  sometimes it's harder.  We do have some projects jointly                     
  with the Division of Mental Health.  One of those projects                   
  is the dually diagnosed projects... (end of tape)                            
                                                                               
  TAPE ONE, SIDE B                                                             
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  ...by the Division of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse.  It                         
  provides for rural human service workers in the villages,                    
  people that can provide, like a community health aide does,                  
  providing primary health care in the village and like the                    
  (inaudible) providing primary public safety that the human                   
  services worker would be able to provide substance abuse                     
  services, mental health services, referral, after care,                      
  education, prevention work within each of the villages.  The                 
  Niel Corporation in Kotzebue and the Dillingham/Bristol Bay                  
  Area Health Corporation are two grantees under that program                  
  that may be on this teleconference and that is a joint                       
  funded program that provides for additional services in the                  
  villages.  One of the lacking of some of the services as I                   
  described those will be that lack of services into the                       
  communities.                                                                 
                                                                               
  In addition, the Department of Corrections we have work with                 
  in terms of providing counselors within each of the jails.                   
  The Norton Sound Health Corporation here has a contract, has                 
  a contract, with the Department of Corrections to provide a                  
  counselor at Anvil Mountain.  Those grants used to come from                 
  us.  Corrections gave us the money several years ago.  The                   
  Department of Corrections opted to want to run that more in                  
  house of their department rather than our division.  We have                 
  been in the process of reversing that and we were going to                   
  RSA them money.  The legislature deleted that money in the                   
  FY 94 budget so the entire inmate substance abuse program                    
  within the Department of Corrections is solely funded with                   
  the Department of Corrections funds.                                         
                                                                               
  We have encouraged them and they have continued to use local                 
  providers rather than hiring alcohol counselors on state                     
  salaries.  We feel the local programs provide ample                          
  expertise and abilities to provide those services in the                     
  jail and to (inaudible) substance abuse costs to the                         
  Department of Corrections.  However, the Department of                       
  Corrections is still using us to fund community treatment                    
  beds for inmates who are getting out on furlough or getting                  
  out on parole that need a residential level of care once                     
  they have left the institution, and so we do have a                          
  relationship with them and then we grant that money out to                   
  local providers and communities that the Department of                       
  Corrections desires, and that money then flows out to the                    
  local treatment programs to provide bed space and treatment                  
  capacities for persons leaving the Department of                             
  Corrections.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Within the Department of Education, they have a federal                      
  program called the Drug Free Schools in which the federal                    
  government gives the State of Alaska a certain money.  That                  
  money is then sent out to the local school districts on a                    
  per capita basis with formula basis based on their average                   
  daily census within the schools.  As part of that there is a                 
  requirement that they have an advisory board that advises                    
  the Department of Education on the plan and some of their                    
  distribution.  I am a member of that, as well as a member                    
  from the Governor's office.                                                  
                                                                               
  In addition, the Governor has awarded discretionary funds                    
  under the drug free schools act, and I think some other                      
  bureau of justice system that the governor's of each state                   
  has the ability to give where they want to provide whatever                  
  services.  Governor Hickel, Governor Cowper before him,                      
  opted to give that money to the Department of Education and                  
  that is put out in prevention grants to local school                         
  districts, to some local providers.                                          
                                                                               
  They are all prevention efforts.  They subsidize DARE                        
  programs, the Drug Abuse Resistance Education programs that                  
  are operated by local police officers, and we fund some of                   
  those directly.                                                              
                                                                               
  So we do in many cases opt to work with other divisions and                  
  other departments in order to better coordinate services for                 
  the client.                                                                  
                                                                               
  I understand in the book you were given a map that people on                 
  teleconference won't be able to see, but basically lays out                  
  our regions.  Also on the map that gives you an idea what                    
  our funding percentages are based on that population.                        
                                                                               
  One group of people I'm leaving out are the Indian Health                    
  Service which does provide a considerable amount of money                    
  directly to local programs, mostly 638 contractors, although                 
  they do have some funds that they call bi-Indian money.  But                 
  most of them are 638 funds as federal public law that allows                 
  for Indian self determination and the Indian Health Services                 
  funds from (inaudible) corporations for primary medical                      
  care.  Substance abuse prevention, I think some FAS funds,                   
  health care community health aids, a lot of that is under                    
  the 638.                                                                     
                                                                               
  If I might, I could just sort of go down the regions that                    
  may be on the teleconference and if I can a little bit from                  
  memory give you an idea of the (inaudible) of the bill.  If                  
  you start of the top, Region 6 is basically the North Slope                  
  Borough.  The major grantee is the North Slope Borough                       
  Health Department.  They receive funds for both outpatient                   
  and outreach efforts in Barrow and the other communities.                    
  They are funded for a six bed detox program and a 16 bed                     
  residential program in Barrow.  We are probably a minor                      
  contributor in terms of funds.  I believe we contribute                      
  roughly $500,000; I think the Borough probably puts in                       
  another $1.5 million in order to fund that program at the                    
  level at which they do fund it.                                              
                                                                               
  Region 5 -- as you go down the left side, is in the Manilik                  
  region.  The Manilik Association receives funding through                    
  the budget request region, the Manilik BRU.  They do not                     
  receive funding out of our grant budget.  They provide for                   
  village outreach, a level of outpatient care.  They have a                   
  detox program and a 12 bed residential program.  They also                   
  do some of the prevention work in the schools.  Also, as                     
  part of Region 5, is the Norton Sound Health Corporation                     
  Region that's headquartered here in Nome.  The Norton Sound                  
  Health Corporation also is funded from a Budget Request                      
  Unit.  It is not funded out of our budget.  I believe they                   
  primarily use our money for their residential program,                       
  Northern Lights Recovery Center.  Indian Health Service                      
  money pays for their prevention effort, some of their                        
  outreach effort.  I know that there's one representative                     
  here in the room that has testified.  She could probably                     
  better describe that program better than I can.  I'm                         
  probably not doing justice to it.                                            
                                                                               
  Region 7 -- which is the YK Health Corporation, the Bethel                   
  Region.  They are funded in two ways.  They get some money                   
  from our grant, the majority of money from our grant                         
  program.  They also have their rural services, they are                      
  village counselors, there are nine, are funded through the                   
  budget request unit for YK (Yukon-Kuskokwim).  The City of                   
  Bethel used to operate the treatment program there and the                   
  YK Health Corporation did the rural services.  About two                     
  years ago the City of Bethel opted to no longer perform                      
  those services and so YK Health Corporation has taken over.                  
  The money has just never moved into their BRU, but I suspect                 
  that this year we will be coming in with a request to do                     
  that.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Region 2 covers the Dillingham area.  The Bristol Bay Area                   
  Health Corporation is the provider there.  They provide                      
  mostly outpatient services.  They provide alcohol safety                     
  action programs.  We pay for services in the villages,                       
  village counselors.  The Indian Health Service supports                      
  that, as does the rural human services project.  They just                   
  recently opened up sort of a transitional residential place                  
  for those who have been, say in Anchorage or Fairbanks for                   
  treatment.  On their way back to their village they may stay                 
  in Dillingham for two or three days to sort of adjust back,                  
  to talk to the local people, make contact with the provider                  
  there, before they go back to their local community.  It's                   
  also a transition for those who are leaving their local                      
  community, maybe going to treatment elsewhere, to come in                    
  from a outlying village into Dillingham, spend three or four                 
  days talking with the staff there, and then moving on.  I do                 
  believe when I talked to the program director there                          
  yesterday that she was going to try to, during the day, to                   
  testify and I'm sure that Dillingham will do that.                           
                                                                               
  Region 9 is mostly the interior.  It's the Tanana                            
  Chiefs/Doyon Region.  I don't know if you are                                
  teleconferenced to either Galena, McGrath or Aniak, but                      
  within that river system, sort of the mid-interior, we do                    
  have a project in Galena, we do have a project at McGrath to                 
  serve all those villages there and then Aniak serves the                     
  villages of the Kuskokwim Natives Association which is                       
  called the Yukon/Kuskokwim Health Corporation District, but                  
  they do have a separate program for the seven or eight                       
  villages along the Kuskokwim River out of Aniak.  As you can                 
  see by the map, it describes basically the population and                    
  the percent of dollars.  These are a low population area.                    
  They get a considerable number of resources.                                 
                                                                               
  Region 6 has one percent of the state's population and they                  
  get three percent of our grant funds and Indian Health                       
  Service money.  When you combine all the money provided out                  
  there they get three percent.                                                
                                                                               
  Region 5 has three percent of the population, nine percent                   
  of the funding.                                                              
                                                                               
  Region 7 has four percent of the population, seven percent                   
  of the funding.                                                              
                                                                               
  Region 2 has three percent of the population and four                        
  percent of the funding.                                                      
                                                                               
  We feel that this distribution is justified in many ways.                    
  It is very difficult to provide services out here.  It is                    
  very costly to provide services.  When you're in the Nome                    
  area and you try to serve St. Lawrence Island and you have                   
  to fly people out and fly clients in, prevention efforts                     
  out, salaries are higher, travel costs are higher.  There                    
  are real significant issues with that.                                       
                                                                               
  I guess with that as an overview, I'll give you an idea of                   
  whom might be testifying.  I can either answer questions now                 
  or as the day proceeds, whatever you desire.  Thank you very                 
  much Mr. Chairman.                                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Thank you Loren, very much, for that very                  
  comprehensive overview of where we are and what's going on.                  
  I would recognize over the teleconference network that we                    
  have, I believe, Kotzebue, Bethel, we have people here in                    
  Nome of course, and Dillingham.  I think I'll ask the                        
  committee now if there are any specific questions of Loren                   
  and if we can get a few of those taken care of.  Loren, you                  
  will be here with us during the day?                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Yes, sir, I'll be here all day.                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  So we don't have to exhaust him right now                  
  and could get some quick ones taken care of and then we'll                   
  go out and rotate through the teleconference and here in                     
  Nome people who would like to talk to the task force.                        
  Representative Mulder.                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:   Thank you Mr. Chairman.  Loren,                     
  starting at the beginning point, the assumption for every                    
  BRU, or every division -- if only I had more money, we could                 
  do a better job.  I recognize that in one hand it's kind of                  
  the senseless question to ask you if you had more money                      
  could you do a better job because a good bureaucrat is                       
  always going to say you bet.  Being very critical Loren, at                  
  what level funding does it begin to drop off.  You know,                     
  there is a point where you just can't overcome a problem or                  
  you are looking at it from a different direction or a wrong                  
  direction.  The question is really a general one.  Does more                 
  money mean a better program in your sense?                                   
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  I believe the answer is yes, for several                       
  reasons.  One is that we do a very good job given the                        
  resources we have available.  I think that any outcome                       
  research we would do or anybody else would do would show                     
  that the programs are working for a majority of the                          
  individuals who come through treatment.  We are as                           
  comparable with any comparable programs anywhere in the                      
  nation.  I think where we could improve -- and I can't                       
  answer the question, When is enough, enough? -- in terms of                  
  when does the treatment foul up.  There are a lot of issues                  
  that make treatment less successful than it could be and                     
  thus cost money.  When you take an individual from a rural                   
  community and bring them into Nome, provide quality                          
  treatment, they leave here full of hope, they are feeling                    
  good about themselves, they've got a better self concept.                    
  Physically they are healthier, and they go back to that                      
  village, and they're back in the same housing situation with                 
  other people who may or may not be in recovery, who may                      
  still be actively drinking, they are still in the same                       
  economic conditions as they were before.  Some people who,                   
  because of the treatment and because of the aftercare                        
  provided, stay in recovery and some don't.  Some relapse and                 
  need to be brought back.  In a more urban setting a lot of                   
  the individuals that are treated in the public sector are                    
  homeless, marginally housed.  Treatment doesn't change that.                 
  Some funds for housing might, some funds to build housing                    
  that's not available in the Anchorage area or a Juneau area                  
  where these individuals, maybe more half-way houses for                      
  these individuals that are some place to go after primary                    
  treatment that are less expensive.  Job training, vocational                 
  training, long term care for some of the hard core public                    
  inebriate, those are expensive for a small portion of the                    
  population.  I'm not sure where the economic benefit stops                   
  in terms of getting better results out of the treatment                      
  program.                                                                     
                                                                               
  But, we are sending people back into the rural areas from                    
  treatment programs in the communities that have no support                   
  for them.  There is no aftercare worker out there.  There is                 
  no VPSO out there.  There is a community health aide                         
  possible.  It's very difficult for that person.  Programs do                 
  it by telephone.  They try to contact the person by phone,                   
  but that's difficult to do.  Placing people out in those                     
  villages, maintaining them, training them, providing them                    
  their clinical support, is expensive and we're not funded at                 
  a level sufficient enough to do that.                                        
                                                                               
  So, yes, more resources would make the treatment system                      
  better because we could do some of the things beyond                         
  treatment, beyond the physical period of sixty or ninety                     
  days in a treatment program, beyond the actual outpatient                    
  counseling that might be able to give that person the                        
  stability they might need to maintain themselves.                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Representative Nordlund.                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  Just to follow-up on Eldon's                       
  question, too.  I had another question.  I guess we don't                    
  really know, frankly, how well these programs are working                    
  because there is some outcome research done, but the                         
  criticism in the Ombudsman's was that it's not very adequate                 
  and I think Loren's willing to admit that there is a better                  
  job that can be done.  So, until we have that component, we                  
  are not going to be sure that the politics of the treatment                  
  is.                                                                          
                                                                               
  Then I have a question.  We have the research that's been                    
  done, or the contract that's been let to CATOR to develop                    
  their outcomes research, and at the same time you have the                   
  strategic plan to determine the future of the division.  I                   
  guess my question is, How is the CATOR working, the                          
  standards by which CATOR is judging the outcomes going to be                 
  determined if you haven't done your plan yet?  In other                      
  words, what is the ultimate objective you are trying to                      
  achieve, even in terms of social costs versus simply the                     
  amount of personal (inaudible)?                                              
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Two-fold.  One, is the outcome research is                     
  very clinically oriented to the individual.  There is a body                 
  of literature and a body of research that is very extensive                  
  in the Lower Forty-Eight, very extensive by the federal                      
  government, that describes those things that drive people                    
  into treatment for things that happen to people while they                   
  are using substances: loss of employment, loss of skills,                    
  marriage break-ups, over use of emergency rooms at                           
  hospitals, loss of jobs, loss of family, dropping out of                     
  school, not finishing your education, having failed personal                 
  health.  There are all kinds of issues that revolve around                   
  an individual who is alcoholic and/or a drug addict who                      
  uses.  Youth, in terms of their completion of school,                        
  staying out of trouble, drunk driving for adults and kids,                   
  criminal behavior, all kinds of things that we relate to                     
  alcohol.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Individually, you can measure how a person's experiences in                  
  those various areas and you can determine a year after                       
  treatment if those areas have improved.  If their health has                 
  improved, they are using ER's less.  That's what CATOR is to                 
  do.  There is a standard body of knowledge out there and                     
  they pretty well standardized this so that we can look at                    
  comparable programs in the Lower Forty-Eight that they have                  
  the data base on.  We can find programs that serve the same                  
  kinds of clients, the same age groups, the same racial                       
  breakdown, the same sex breakdown, the same level of                         
  debility or nondebility if you are talking about out-patient                 
  clients.  So we can compare how we're doing irrespective of                  
  what the strategic plan is.                                                  
                                                                               
  I can tell you that in the strategic plan one of the issues                  
  is to develop a more on-going maintenance of that kind of                    
  follow-up effort so that we don't have to wait two and                       
  one-half years to get a result so that hopefully by the time                 
  CATOR is done we will have taken that information,                           
  instituted that on a routine basis, so that each year we                     
  will have continuing information.  So a strategic plan is to                 
  push us ahead.  We agree that there is not formalized                        
  outcome research done in this state.  We have not done a                     
  (inaudible), a telephone study in 82' or '83.  We have not                   
  made a very good effort at that partly because we have been                  
  under a lot of pressure, we feel rightly so, to expand some                  
  services.                                                                    
                                                                               
  When we have asked for increments to fund that, generally                    
  services have been funded and not research, and we have                      
  opted not to take money from the grantees in order to do                     
  that research and that's a choice we made and the Ombudsman                  
  called us on it.  At the same time, there is a body of                       
  evidence that certain kinds of programs are more effective,                  
  that programs that have these kinds of services, that                        
  provide treatment for a certain length of time, cover those                  
  subjects, provide the aftercare, make the referral to                        
  self-help groups, are the kinds of programs that are                         
  evaluated.  We do have a process to determine that those are                 
  kinds of programs that are being operated.  So we have an                    
  intuitive feel, we have a process feel and the programs                      
  understand.                                                                  
                                                                               
  The people here in Nome know whether they have been                          
  successful or not because the people they treat live here,                   
  the people they treat are in their villages.  They see those                 
  people and they make the adjustments in their program as are                 
  required.  So, we think that we do know what is needed to                    
  operate a quality program, that we have put in place                         
  programs that meet those standards, that give us every                       
  indication that they are being successful in what they are                   
  doing.  We just do not have the organized, scientific                        
  research that will satisfy a (inaudible) maybe even satisfy                  
  myself and certainly not have satisfied the Ombudsman.  But,                 
  we think we've got enough of that in place to be able to                     
  come together with our funds.                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  Loren, I've got a question                         
  regarding the strategic plan and just how in the long-term                   
  this is going to work.  What assurance do we have, the                       
  legislature and the citizens, that once a certain length of                  
  time is often accepted, including the strategic plan, that                   
  it's going to continue to be that way, that there is some                    
  longevity to it.  We could have changes in the                               
  administration, a change in philosophy and turn the division                 
  upside down.  Is there something we can put in statute once                  
  this is developed, or what sort of assurance do we have that                 
  there is some longevity to it?                                               
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  I'm not sure if there is a statutory answer.                   
  The answer is, is there longevity to it to the extent that                   
  the local programs are being funded to the extend that we                    
  did hold some public hearings and we could combine?  I would                 
  hope that they would be able to force any changes of                         
  administration to look at that plan and to try to accept it,                 
  but I have no guarantees.  I've watched the Division of                      
  Family and Youth Services develop their strategic plan, and                  
  then a change of administration and that plan got shelved.                   
  There is a statutory requirement that there is a plan.                       
  There is a statutory requirement that it be approved by the                  
  Governor.  When this administration came in, they accepted                   
  the plan that was in place and I would expect that if we've                  
  done a quality job and there is a lot of buy-off, that the                   
  next administration would look at that.  They might not want                 
  to implement all of it.  They may want to push it ahead.                     
                                                                               
  In terms of are there guarantees for the legislature?  No.                   
  That's why the legislature has one, the Ombudsman's Office,                  
  and two, legislative committees like this.  That's your                      
  control over us that we're doing our job correctly.  If you                  
  read the Ombudsman's report, we felt, and I felt when I was                  
  interviewed, and I still feel, that we have tried to honor                   
  the requirements of the statute.  The statute gives nineteen                 
  shalls that we shall do and we have a staff of 28.  We have                  
  a lot of programs out here that try to provide quality                       
  services and we try to provide them with as much support as                  
  we can.                                                                      
                                                                               
  The statute gives us the ability to define what is in a                      
  comprehensive program, from emergency care to residential                    
  care to outpatient care to aftercare and follow-up, and we                   
  felt that we were trying to honor that.  It gives us the                     
  philosophy.  It tells us what our mission is.  It tells us                   
  who our clients are: alcoholics, intoxicated persons, drug                   
  abusers and inhalant abusers, and yet the Ombudsman felt                     
  that that wasn't sufficient, that we have not maybe lived up                 
  to that and that we had not gone beyond that statute.  So,                   
  even having it in statute does not necessarily keep a                        
  program from either not meeting a certain set of standards                   
  that somebody else places or maybe even not meeting the                      
  standards that were set for itself.                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  I guess one of the comments in the                 
  Ombudsman's report, one of the main things was that there is                 
  no mission statement and I think I can sympathize with that.                 
  Over time and with changes in administration, the division                   
  could gravitate, you know, or respond to political whims,                    
  more so than if it had more of a state ironclad mission.                     
  Not that a mission like that couldn't change over time, but                  
  maybe you look at maybe some sort of statutory requirement                   
  that there would be in (inaudible) of the strategic plan.                    
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  We will get the first part of the report,                      
  which is the mission statement.  The team worked very hard                   
  to develop that and I think it does answer what the                          
  Ombudsman would like us to answer, and in fact will give us                  
  some real direction.                                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Thank you Representative Nordlund.  This                   
  is Representative Porter. I'm going to go to plan C here and                 
  try and get my voice to Bethel and use the button instead of                 
  the switch.  If that still doesn't work, I'll trade mics I                   
  guess.  Loren, if I might follow-up really on what                           
  Representative Nordlund was mentioning.  In reading the                      
  Ombudsman's report, it appeared to me that part of the                       
  ability of the Ombudsman had to criticize was that there had                 
  very recently been criteria developed nationally, or at                      
  least recognized nationally, begin to be recognized                          
  nationally, of new methods of evaluation and new emphasis in                 
  that area.  With that in mind, and I'm sure you are now                      
  looking at those methods to incorporate into your plan, if                   
  it is the Title 47 that sets up standards for program, it                    
  may well be that there is a need for statutory change and I                  
  know that I would echo what Representative Nordlund just                     
  said that we would be very interested in any recommendations                 
  that your division, or all of the other people telling you                   
  what to do, bring to you in regards to an inability that you                 
  may have that could be rectified by statute or specificity                   
  in what you should be doing that could be rectified by                       
  statute.  In that regard, also, I may have some experience                   
  in program evaluation requirements within this state.                        
  I know that one of the things, if you haven't already, that                  
  a really comprehensive evaluation system is going to run                     
  into is the problems of gathering data from other agencies,                  
  other departments, as a result of confidentiality problems.                  
  When those hit, I say when, not if, we would also be very                    
  willing to look at what might be required to overcome those                  
  obstacles.                                                                   
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Thank you very much.  We will get you some                     
  recommendations.  It may well be, in terms of evaluation,                    
  mandated.  I believe that it is part of the statute, whether                 
  it is specific or not, I don't know.  We will take a look at                 
  that and maybe be able to make some recommendations at the                   
  October 4th meeting.  In terms of what the Ombudsman said                    
  about other states, one in particular they talked about,                     
  South Dakota, had opted to use local funds to do that.  They                 
  are contracting to CATOR, the same agency that we are now                    
  contacting with.  The state of Ohio has just recently                        
  contracted with CATOR also.  So, some of the programs that                   
  some of those states were mentioned in the Ombudsman's                       
  report are using new standards.                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I think that the Kelso report ten years                    
  ago, and now CATOR, will be able to, at quite an expense,                    
  ferret out information using confidentiality, or having the                  
  ability to overcome confidentiality programs with the                        
  research exceptions and those kinds of things.  What you                     
  need to do, as you mentioned, is set up the ability to                       
  provide ongoing reception of this information so that you                    
  can continue this work with Kelso and CATOR go away.  These                  
  are the kinds of requirements that are going to be bring                     
  these problems to bear.  And as I say, when they get there,                  
  let us know.                                                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  This is on the funding question.                   
  I need to just get some clarification here and maybe a                       
  chance for you to address the Ombudsman's point.  Your                       
  funding right now is oh 85 to 90 percent out of the mental                   
  health trust income account.                                                 
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  That's right.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  And according to that, the                         
  beneficiary groups of that are current alcoholics with                       
  psychosis.                                                                   
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  That's correct.                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  Now let's say that you're trying                   
  to serve, what, 85 to 90 percent of your budget serves                       
  chronic alcoholics with psychosis?                                           
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  No.  We have an agreement to disagree with the                 
  mental health board in that we try to be as clear as we can                  
  that we don't fund drug only programs, such as methadone                     
  programs, drug free outpatient, uh, programs whose purpose                   
  is primary drug of choice is other than alcohol from the                     
  trust.  We use federal funds and general funds to do that.                   
  We do not fund prevention programs directly from the trust.                  
  There is a prevention component to a lot of programs.  The                   
  Norton Sound Health Corporation has a prevention effort                      
  funded by the Indian Health Service, but some of their local                 
  alcohol effort comes from the state through their BRU, which                 
  is also mental health trust, probably funds a little bit of                  
  community prevention, a speaker's bureau, whatever.  But, we                 
  try not to fund directly.  We do, however, fund women's                      
  services.  We do fund some youth services.  We do fund other                 
  programs that are not directly related to a chronic                          
  alcoholic with psychosis.  The mental health board has                       
  accepted women's only services because if you provide                        
  services to a woman of child bearing age or a woman who is                   
  pregnant, and you can prevent a child from being born that                   
  is FAS, then you have prevented a new beneficiary to the                     
  mental health trust; a developmentally disabled child.  So,                  
  they have agreed that services targeted toward women of                      
  child bearing age and services to pregnant women is a                        
  legitimate use of the trust.  We've sort of reached that                     
  compromise over time.                                                        
                                                                               
  But it is a difficult process to look at the definition, and                 
  now what is Chapter 66, which will become effective if and                   
  when the mental health trust ever gets settled.  There is a                  
  pretty strict definition in that statute of what is a                        
  chronic alcoholic with psychosis and a teenager in                           
  treatment; a person with inhalant abuse, a young pregnant                    
  woman, even a young male, probably is not going to fit that                  
  definition very well.                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  How does that amount that this                     
  thing is arrived at, which is a huge share of your budget,                   
  that seems unreasonable.  It seems to me that an alternate                   
  way... I mean, we all understand how the mental health trust                 
  income accounting is somewhat of a shell game.  It would                     
  seem to me to be more forthright, straightforward, to just                   
  determine the amount of your budget that actually do serve                   
  those clients and ascribe that percentage that's coming from                 
  the trust.                                                                   
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  The rationale for the legislative action                       
  happened just before I took over.  If you look at the budget                 
  summary that's in your book, you will see where the mental                   
  health trust funding started out at very low levels, two or                  
  three million the first year, and about three years later it                 
  was up to thirteen or fourteen million.  The legislature did                 
  it at a time when there was increasing pressure to decrease                  
  the general fund expenditures and the mental health was                      
  beyond the cap set for general fund expenditures.  There was                 
  an audit by the Office of Management and Budget that came                    
  out just shortly after, about six months, eight months,                      
  after I got this job, that basically felt that most of our                   
  services should be under the trust.  They felt that the                      
  definition was unduly narrow from the court and even felt                    
  that our Alcohol Safety Action Program, which deals with a                   
  lot of these individual who are not alcoholic or abusers who                 
  at one time got caught drunk driving, could be funded from                   
  the trust.  So there was that audit among the Office of                      
  Management and Budget that the legislature may have used.                    
                                                                               
  But the significant increase... this year they didn't                        
  decrease our mental health trust, but the legislature                        
  decreased our general fund.  That raised the percentage                      
  without increasing the dollars.  So, I'm not sure what the                   
  rationale of the legislature was at the time because I was                   
  not in this position then.  But, they've maintained that                     
  because it's a way to maintain the budget without breaking                   
  the general fund cap when they deal with general fund                        
  dollars.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Okay.  Loren, thank you very much and we                   
  appreciate your being able to be with us so that if other                    
  questions come up during the day you can jump back in.  I'll                 
  now uh, Representative Foster?                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER:  I just wanted to know if you would                   
  be available when the people here from Nome, if they've got                  
  any questions later when they testify, if they can address                   
  them?                                                                        
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Yes.  I'll be here all day.                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER:  Okay.                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I have arbitrarily decided to go                           
  alphabetically.  I'm going to start with the first person in                 
  the first city in the alphabet that I have, and that's                       
  Bethel, and ask if Virginia Turner is in Bethel and can                      
  testify?                                                                     
                                                                               
  VIRGINIA TURNER:  Yes, I am.                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Welcome Virginia.  Please give us your                     
  full name for the record and we'd be anxious to hear from                    
  you.                                                                         
                                                                               
  VIRGINIA TURNER:  My name is Virginia Turner.  I've been an                  
  Alaska resident for eighteen years and a Bethel resident for                 
  the past year.  In the past ten years I've worked for the                    
  Department of Corrections in an alcohol use prevention                       
  program for pregnant and post-partum women and their infants                 
  for the prevention of FAS/FAE children.  In these two work                   
  settings I've become familiar with some of the issues that                   
  arise surrounding cultural differences in physical settings.                 
  In corrections, the issue was probationary supervision and                   
  follow-up for the Alaskan released from prison and returning                 
  to a village.  In the alcohol prevention program, the issue                  
  from the women's stand-point was similar -- appropriate                      
  follow-up and support services in the village after                          
  treatment.  Oftentimes treatment was deferred because these                  
  clients felt the residential programs available to them were                 
  not sufficiently cognizant of their needs for strong active                  
  support and follow-up upon their return to their homes in                    
  the village.  I wanted to go on record with these concerns                   
  for village based probation and alcohol use prevention                       
  programs and follow-up so legislators will be sort of in                     
  tune with the needs of rural villages.  In both the                          
  correctional setting and alcohol prevention, in the                          
  Department of Corrections, inmates who are Native, an                        
  extremely high majority of them have been incarcerated due                   
  to alcohol related crimes and so alcohol is at the base of                   
  even this probationary follow through, and I just wanted to                  
  say whatever efforts the government can make, this is just                   
  an extra voice saying please support village based programs.                 
  Thank you.                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Virginia, thank you.  Are there any                        
  questions?  Seeing none, Virginia, thank you very much.  We                  
  have written down your comments.  I'd next like to go to                     
  Dillingham, the next one in the alphabet and ask if Ms.                      
  Cristy Willer Tilden is ready to testify?                                    
                                                                               
  CRISTY WILLER TILDEN:  Yes.  This is Cristy Willer Tilden in                 
  Dillingham.  I am the program director of the Bristol Bay                    
  Area Health Corporation drug and alcohol program, also                       
  running as Loren pointed out earlier a new transitional care                 
  unit called Jake's Place.  I didn't know exactly how to                      
  frame remarks today, but I figured that one dramatic line                    
  that would appeal was cost effectiveness.  So, I was just                    
  jotting some notes here about what, from our experience here                 
  in Bristol Bay, would be some of the more cost effective and                 
  generally effective ways to go with the continuation of our                  
  drug and alcohol services.  For instance, as Loren also                      
  mentioned, we lose patients and lose money when people                       
  returning from treatment don't have follow-up and aftercare,                 
  which is a primary reason for going to transitional care in                  
  the first place.  People returning to villages who go back                   
  into the same environment that they left, who don't have any                 
  time to hone skills, who don't have any support networks in                  
  villages, can and often do bounce right back to treatment.                   
  It seems important and reasonable to assume that having more                 
  supports in the villages makes sense and makes fiscal sense                  
  as well.                                                                     
                                                                               
  For that reason, we and our mental health program are                        
  fielding more family services workers through some funding                   
  we got from the Division of Mental Health and Developmental                  
  Disabilities, but in total we have only about fourteen such                  
  workers in a region the size of Ohio with 32 villages.  That                 
  doesn't cut it and it doesn't cut it for the people we have                  
  in villages who are doing the best they can with limited                     
  resources, many of them half-time and many of them without                   
  other supports outside of health aides and occasionally                      
  VPSO's to work on what everybody recognizes is our largest                   
  health and social problem.  Sorely, its widely recognized                    
  that prevention and early intervention are methods that, in                  
  the long run, are extremely cost effective in terms of                       
  impacting the larger problems of alcoholism and drug abuse.                  
  Currently, we have funding, we're about a third funded                       
  through the Division of Alcoholism, a third through IHS, and                 
  a third through local revenues to the health corporation's                   
  hospital unit.                                                               
                                                                               
  We have one youth coordinator position, again for all of                     
  Bristol Bay.  It's, and I'm in an enviable spot for anybody                  
  to be in to try to provide both treatment and prevention                     
  services for all of the young people in this very large                      
  region which, although the population is low perhaps                         
  relatively to urban areas, is spread out and we have a lot                   
  of young people here, who if we could directly effect their                  
  developing lives, to a better extent, might well not ever                    
  wind up in our treatment or your treatment programs.  One                    
  person covering all those villages is not enough.                            
  Another way to impact our situation is to train more local                   
  people in those jobs.  As I say, one way to do that is to                    
  work through our rural human services program that's been, I                 
  think, effective. It's a new program but we've enjoyed and I                 
  think are helping to build it along with the other four                      
  regions that are involved in it.  But to the extent that we                  
  could continue to work with training, hire local people in                   
  our programs, we would cut into turnover costs, travel                       
  costs, bringing people in from outside and in addition build                 
  the local programs and the local population.                                 
                                                                               
  You mentioned the Title 47 laws impacting the statutory                      
  changes in that.  How many of, and I know this is right, but                 
  so many of our resources are sucked into the problem of                      
  dealing with public inebriates, but to change those laws so                  
  that we could all respond more effectively and less                          
  intensively would help us to deliver more appropriate                        
  services, I believe.  That was really what I had on my list.                 
  In sum, the least effective way to deal with these problems                  
  is to ignore them, of course, and to hope that they'll go                    
  away.  If you assume that at this point we're not sure                       
  exactly what works then we can't fund anything.  We, I                       
  think, are reasonably sure that we know what works.  We are                  
  very happy to know that we'll be involved in more outcome                    
  studies and are initiating some of our own follow-up and                     
  assessment studies throughout the region to make that more                   
  concrete.  We are pleased with the work of the division.  We                 
  want to continue being a part of that and looking forward to                 
  your support.  I'll be here for questions too.                               
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Cristy, thank you very much.  If I might                   
  ask, as Mr. Jones mentioned, and it would appear to me and                   
  certainly I would agree that it's areas like Dillingham and                  
  Nome and even smaller areas that really know whether a                       
  program has worked or not; to that end, especially                           
  considering your needs in the villages, are there any                        
  villages that have shown what you would say is a success in                  
  either early intervention or aftercare programs that could                   
  be used in others?                                                           
                                                                               
  CRISTY WILLER TILDEN:  Yes.  I think issues run in cycles                    
  too.  To some extent there are several villages in this                      
  region that over time have, some with our direct assistance                  
  and some more on their own, have developed programs under                    
  the general Arabic of community development that have been                   
  replicated in other villages.  In fact, we're working on an                  
  idea of having some sister villages where we can build                       
  communication with between those that have and those that                    
  haven't got strong programs.  One in particular I was                        
  thinking of has made it their business to send large numbers                 
  of village residents to statewide conferences, such as rural                 
  providers conference, to build a kind of home base of people                 
  who have thereby received a similar vocabulary and                           
  experience in healing from the larger group of people in                     
  this state who are involved in the sobriety movement.  They                  
  and some other villages are getting... (end of tape)                         
                                                                               
  TAPE TWO, SIDE A                                                             
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  ...(inaudible) different ways in which to respond.  But,                     
  unless this answers your question that there are several                     
  villages who have different responses.  I have with me one                   
  of our counselors, Louie Jones, and he might have another                    
  response to that question if you would like to hear it.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Certainly.                                                 
                                                                               
  LOUIE JONES:  Yes.  High everybody.  I am from the                           
  Dillingham Police Department and when they have hired a                      
  counselor in my village, our office in Nome, I believe                       
  solely on the Title 47's for that village and the time that                  
  counsel was hired there, there is quite a number of                          
  decreases, and whether they are effective in that part or                    
  not I don't know, but there was definitely a decrease in the                 
  number of Title 47's from that area.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I appreciate that.  If you have it in                      
  hand, I'd like to get it.  If not, if you could send it to                   
  us the name of those villages and perhaps a contact person                   
  that we could get some additional information from.                          
                                                                               
  LOUIE JONES:  Yes.  I'll try and do that, but I would like                   
  to work with Dillingham's police department on that because                  
  at that time I was working for the Dillingham Police                         
  Department under their public inebriate program and now I'm                  
  working for Jake's Place.  I'd also like to give a little                    
  testimony here on the plans there are on probationary that                   
  include that they either work with us during that time or if                 
  they are a success and we could discharge them.  We here in                  
  Dillingham are in the process of working with the courts,                    
  with other different agencies here in Dillingham, and we are                 
  talking about what our problems are and they in turn are                     
  telling us what's going on and now we are trying to work                     
  together.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Another group we are working with also is the Location                       
  Rehabilitation Program that (inaudible) in finding out what                  
  is going on and also that they may be able to go to say like                 
  vocational training.  I just wanted to mention that had...                   
  what is successful that they found out through their program                 
  that the court deferral were more success than the self-                     
  referral.  Why, I don't know.                                                
                                                                               
  And also on the issue about, ah, I heard some people trying                  
  to set up a program for cocaine, inhalants and alcohol and                   
  other programs.  I think it's coming to that time where we                   
  need to look at climatic conditions.  I am talking about on                  
  a personal level that I was into cocaine, marijuana,                         
  alcohol, inhalants, hallucinate drugs, but I found out                       
  through the counselor that they are able to find out the                     
  causes and conditions of those that when you start doing the                 
  counselor to help the client that's in their village and not                 
  send them somewhere else.  This is a need for some people,                   
  but for those of people (inaudible) sit down in those areas                  
  and (inaudible).                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Okay.  Louie, thank you very much.  If                     
  there are no questions, and I see none, I'd like to move if                  
  we could to Kotzebue and see if Reggie Joule is ready to                     
  testify?                                                                     
                                                                               
  REGGIE JOULE:  Can you year me?                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Yes, we can.                                               
                                                                               
  REGGIE JOULE:  Good morning.  This is Reggie Joule in                        
  Kotzebue.  Currently I am the chairman of the Advisory and                   
  Drug Abuse for the State of Alaska.  I'd like to present my                  
  testimony wearing that hat.  I guess prior to addressing                     
  some of the issues a couple of items I'd like to bring up...                 
  I guess a question was posed to Loren about the level of                     
  funding.  In regards to the substance abuse, it's been a                     
  known fact for a while that alcohol, other drug and other                    
  inhalant abuse is Alaska's number one health problem.                        
  Unfortunately, the funds haven't really followed that.  In                   
  fact, we kind of got a decrease over the last year.  I think                 
  it is kind of a knee jerk reaction to the Ombudsman's report                 
  and I'd just like to point out that, you know, with regards                  
  to dollars that flow to AIDA and this being Alaska's                         
  so-called number one health problem, I guess if I were to                    
  use an analogy, it would be to take a look at the kinds of                   
  dollars that flow to DOT, the Department of Transportation,                  
  for preventive road maintenance, that kind of stuff, and                     
  when there are pot holes that are really, really bad, you                    
  know, they move basically right in there to fix them to                      
  protect the life and safety of all the motorists, which is                   
  very, very understandable.  And also, another analogy is                     
  that inflation-proofing the permanent fund, you know, that's                 
  just money and we're talking about real lives and real                       
  people in a life, health, safety issue with regards to                       
  alcohol and drugs.                                                           
                                                                               
  I'd like to talk a little bit about our current structure                    
  because right now we have... the advisory is made up of                      
  twelve members, two members who are licensed to practice                     
  medicine in this state, one of whom is certified in                          
  psychiatry.  That particular seat, I believe, is still empty                 
  so we have currently eleven active members.  One member who                  
  was admitted to practice law in the state of Alaska, eight                   
  members from the public at large who've expressed an                         
  interest in the problem of alcohol and other drug abuse, and                 
  one member who is a representative of the liquor industry,                   
  and these are all appointed by the Governor, as they should                  
  be.                                                                          
                                                                               
  Our duties, and I'd like to point these out because there is                 
  some legislation and there is something that your task force                 
  can make recommendation on to the legislature, but the                       
  duties of the board are to act in an advisory capacity to                    
  the Commissioner of Health and Social Services in the                        
  following manners:                                                           
                                                                               
       1) special problems effecting mental health with                        
  alcoholism or drug abuse may present,                                        
                                                                               
       2) educational research and public informational                        
  activities conducted by the Department of Health and Social                  
  Services and others in respect to the problems presented by                  
  alcoholism or drug abuse,                                                    
                                                                               
       3) social problems that effect rehabilitation of                        
  alcoholics and drug abusers,                                                 
                                                                               
       4) legal processes that affect the rehabilitation and                   
  treatment of alcoholics and drug abusers,                                    
                                                                               
       5) development of programs of prevention, treatment and                 
  rehabilitation for alcoholics and drug abusers,                              
                                                                               
       6) review applications and subsequent recommendations                   
  to the Commissioner of Health and Social Services for use of                 
  funds for grants for local alcoholism and drug abuse                         
  projects and programs, and finally                                           
                                                                               
       7) evaluation of effectiveness of alcoholism and drug                   
  abuse programs in this state.                                                
                                                                               
  I give you that background because some of you may be                        
  familiar with Senate Bill 65, which deals with the mental                    
  health lands trust issue that's being held up in court.                      
  When we read that document, Chapter 66, there is some                        
  proposals in there that directly affect the Division of                      
  Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, and specifically, the advisory                    
  board.  There would be a new waivers to go through and this                  
  is something that the legislature could single out of Senate                 
  Bill 65 and do this through the legislative process, is to                   
  go ahead and make some changes, changes I believe that are                   
  needed, and shouldn't be made to wait until the courts come                  
  up with a decision on the mental health lands trust.                         
                                                                               
  One of the priorities of the member, the change of the board                 
  would increase from twelve members to fifteen members.  One                  
  member would be licensed to practice medicine in this state.                 
  One member practice law in this state; four members who are                  
  chronic alcoholics with psychosis who are recovering.  We                    
  would like to suggest there is, that those numbers, is that                  
  maybe we strike the word psychosis and leave it open to four                 
  members who are chronic alcoholics who are recovering.                       
                                                                               
  Then it goes on to three members who are substance abuse                     
  treatment professionals who represent public and private                     
  providers of substance abuse prevention and treatment                        
  services, and five members who have shown an interest in the                 
  problems of alcoholism, mental and drug abuse, who have                      
  knowledge of social problems associated with these                           
  substances.                                                                  
                                                                               
  In there it also means that if you've been adding the                        
  numbers, you come up with fourteen.  It also means the                       
  director of the Division of Alcohol and Drug Abuse would be                  
  an ex-officio member of this board and would we would like                   
  to propose there is that we strike ex-officio and just make                  
  that individual, Loren in this case, a full member of that                   
  board.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Staffing, at one point when SB 65 was initially proposed, I                  
  think this was in the last legislative session, not this                     
  last year but the year prior, some funding had been set                      
  aside in anticipation that this was going to be going                        
  through for staffing, and we not talking about staffing,                     
  what I'm talking about is staffing for the board.                            
                                                                               
  Currently, the advisory board has no staff, and so a lot of                  
  the things we are supposed to get to, we make an attempt but                 
  the division, Loren and his staff, they have their hands                     
  full as you can well imagine from his testimony this                         
  morning.  So they have a full plate to deal with and the                     
  fact of the matter is, you know, the Mental Health Board,                    
  the Council on Domestic Violence, some of the other people                   
  and parties that were named in the mental health trust, not                  
  only do they have their own boards or councils, but they are                 
  stacked as well with their executive directors, you know,                    
  people who are there to take some slack off the executive                    
  directors who's day-to-day work, research, and those kinds                   
  of things, as well as secretarial help, and we have none of                  
  that and so that would be a big help.  And as I mentioned                    
  before, funding had been appropriated and then it was                        
  deleted so that funding is not there.  So basically what                     
  we're talking about is a staff for the board of three                        
  people, an executive director, an analyst and then some                      
  secretarial help.                                                            
                                                                               
  The other thing that needs to happen, as you are well aware                  
  from Loren's testimony, is that not only are we charged with                 
  addressing the issues of alcoholism and drug abuse, but also                 
  inhalant abuse, and nowhere in this Chapter 66, SB 65 is                     
  inhalant abuse addressed, but yet from prior statutes that                   
  is part of our responsibility and so that language needs to                  
  be included if these changes are to be made.                                 
                                                                               
  And I guess just a note to that to kind of reinforce what                    
  Loren had been saying a little bit earlier, and that is that                 
  while the division has been given the responsibility to deal                 
  with inhalant abuse, as well as alcoholism and other drugs,                  
  no money has come forth from the legislature to address that                 
  issue and I guess the expectation has been to do that with                   
  the existing dollars and from Loren's description of the                     
  programs and types of services you could see that would be                   
  kind of hard to do, especially if inhalant abusers are not                   
  mentioned in the mental health lands trust as a beneficiary.                 
                                                                               
  Also while you're changing it, I'd like to recommend to this                 
  committee, to this task force with regards to... is that                     
  currently we are in an advisory board capacity.  What we                     
  would like to propose is that we drop advisory and so that                   
  this board is in fact just more than one that gives advise                   
  and that the duties that are here would not necessarily                      
  focus us in on the commissioner as we are now, but that we                   
  would deal in policy issues and address some of the issues                   
  that you have concerns over and that, quite frankly, the                     
  Ombudsman has some concerns over and to also deal with                       
  budgetary and working on the budgets that the division has                   
  to work through.                                                             
                                                                               
  The new duties of this board, as proposed, would be to act                   
  in an advisory capacity to the legislator, the Governor, and                 
  state agencies in the following matters:                                     
                                                                               
       a) special problems affecting mental health and                         
  alcoholism  or drug abuse may present,                                       
                                                                               
       b) educational research and public informational                        
  activities in respect to the problems presented by                           
  alcoholism or drug abuse,                                                    
                                                                               
       c) social problems that affect rehabilitation and                       
  alcoholics and drug abusers,                                                 
                                                                               
       d) legal processes that affect the treatment and                        
  rehabilitation of alcoholics and drug abusers,                               
                                                                               
       e) development of programs of prevention, treatment and                 
  rehabilitation for alcoholics and drug abusers,                              
                                                                               
       f) evaluation of effectiveness of alcoholism and drug                   
  abuse programs in the state.                                                 
                                                                               
  Divide the mental health trust authority for its review and                  
  consideration recommendations concerning the integrated                      
  comprehensive mental health program for people who are                       
  described in AS 47.40.056(b)(3), I'm not sure that's the                     
  right jargon to describe that, and concerning the use of                     
  money in the mental health trust income account in a manner                  
  consistent with regulations adopted under AS 47.30.031.                      
                                                                               
  The board is the state planning and coordinating body for                    
  purposes of federal and state laws relating to alcohol and                   
  drug and other substance abuse prevention and treatment                      
  services and, finally, the board shall prepare and maintain                  
  a comprehensive plan of service for the prevention and                       
  treatment of alcohol, drug and other substance abuses.  So,                  
  as you can see that the current language that if in fact the                 
  statutes are amended as we should have to address inhalant                   
  abuse that inhalant abuse needs to be added to the parts                     
  that say alcohol and drug abuse.                                             
                                                                               
  That about raps up my testimony, and if there are any                        
  questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them.  Thank you                   
  for your time.  I really appreciate it and I'm glad that you                 
  are doing this issue with this focus at this time.                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Mr. Joule, thank you.  I see no questions                  
  right now, but I would add that as was mentioned we will                     
  certainly be looking at any proposed legislation that might                  
  have a specific or general effect on this area and would be                  
  happy to look at the proposal you just read to us.  Within                   
  that, I had hoped to ask this question of Mr. Jones, either                  
  here or at a subsequent committee meeting but, since you are                 
  the chairman of that advisory group, while there is                          
  obviously a different approach as is required by criminal                    
  law to alcohol abuse and drug abuse, I have read that and                    
  seem reasonably convinced at this stage of my learning that                  
  substance abuse appears to be substance abuse, whether it's                  
  alcohol, drugs, inhalants, or whatever they come up with                     
  next year, and I'm wondering if your advisory committee,                     
  from the standpoint of the individual and collective social                  
  and health adverse effects from substance abuse, might want                  
  to look at it in that manner.                                                
                                                                               
  REGGIE JOULE:  As long as I guess those areas that we are                    
  mandated, you know, if we're going to call it substance                      
  abuse, then there needs to be a glossary somewhere that                      
  defines substance abuse because substance abuse also, I                      
  think, could include something like cigarettes, which are in                 
  another division within the same department; and so, if we                   
  were talking about substance abuse, I think we need to, just                 
  so that anybody whose turf that their in knows what we're                    
  talking about when we talk about substances and that it's                    
  more clear what's being covered there.                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Well, I certainly would agree.  Having                     
  quit smoking a few years ago myself I know the trauma is                     
  just as much there, I would guess, as an alcoholic, but what                 
  I think perhaps would be a reasonable start at a definition                  
  would be substances that would alter conscious awareness,                    
  which I guess if I recall as a teenager, cigarettes did for                  
  a while, but they quickly went.  In any event, I appreciate                  
  your testimony and if I may I would like to move back to                     
  Nome and ask if Diana Freeman is still with us and can                       
  testify?  Diana, you can push the button down so that                        
  everybody can hear you.                                                      
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  My name is Diana Freeman.  I have been                       
  working in treatment for five years.  I work at the Northern                 
  Lights Recovery Center, which is part of the Norton Sound                    
  Health Corporation, and I have lived in Nome, Alaska, nine                   
  years I believe.  I do hear the concern about inhalant abuse                 
  and we, as a program, have tried to meet that unmet need by                  
  writing grants and seeking other funding.                                    
                                                                               
  Another part that I agree with, the lady from Dillingham                     
  talked about village based services, and we also feel the                    
  need for that also and have been working through alternative                 
  funding through the Robert Wood Johnson Grant Foundation to                  
  receive a scope of programs through them that would identify                 
  a village person to respond and to counsel and kind of be a                  
  first responder.  Another unmet need that I see is                           
  transitional living program, which we have pursued funding                   
  for three or four years, five years.  We would like to see                   
  more halfway houses, especially one here in Nome.                            
                                                                               
  If we bring people in from the villages and they get                         
  stabilized and they get real solid in treatment, and they go                 
  back out to that same village and enter that same                            
  environment, and they don't have a job, their recovery rate                  
  is low.  So, I think that would help us in a way and we are                  
  continually trying to strive to do that by doing alternative                 
  funding.  We also do initiate follow-up work.  We did an                     
  extensive follow-up of our program for three years, 1989,                    
  90, 91, and found out a lot of information from doing that.                  
  We do believe our program and it is like Loren says.  I've                   
  been in treatment five years so I see the people that come                   
  back.  I know them, I see them out in the community.  I see                  
  that they are getting sober and I do believe that we do have                 
  a strong sobriety movement.                                                  
                                                                               
  Also, what has helped us here in the Nome area is the                        
  putting in of the detox center.  When I first started                        
  working with Northern Lights Recovery Center, we did not                     
  have such an entity in Nome.  Now we work together quite                     
  closely and it is a good team effort to try to get these                     
  people into treatment.  One of the villages that we do have                  
  that has taken the initiative upon themselves is Savoonga.                   
  They have created a suicide crisis response team and I did                   
  hear about two cases.  One, they responded to a young woman                  
  with suicide iviation and they stayed with her continually                   
  through the night.  The other one was a young man using                      
  inhalants and they put him in a closed quarters and stayed                   
  in there with him until he came off the gasoline.  These                     
  people are not paid.  They do it as a part of wanting to                     
  help their own community and I could give you information on                 
  who to contact there later.                                                  
                                                                               
  Also with the Northern Lights Recovery Center we do have a                   
  prevention unit and some of the more innovative things that                  
  they do are in the fall of the year and the spring of the                    
  year, they put on two large workshops where they bring in                    
  people from the villages to create awareness and we've had                   
  different workshops on FAS, FAE, inhalants.  This fall we're                 
  having anacoral conference.  It's the Alaska Native Children                 
  of Alcoholics conference that's going to be coming up so                     
  they do things like that to initially create the awareness.                  
                                                                               
  Another thing that I had identified specifically from the                    
  needs assessment that has been something that I have been                    
  wanting to do for a long time, but we do need assistance                     
  with funding, is to create a support group by the mechanism                  
  that we are all listening to this conversation.  That is to                  
  have a support group that all the villages could link up to                  
  on a bridge that could be a teleconference that could be                     
  something that is consistent for these people in the way of                  
  support and so we are looking at trying to get some type of                  
  funding for that also.  I think that's initially what I had                  
  to say.                                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Thank you very much, Diana.  Is the group                  
  in Savoonga, how long have they been in existence?                           
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  I would say probably about six months.                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Are they in any way receiving any training                 
  or anything in terms of peer counseling?                                     
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  I think they receive training through the,                   
  uh, we have a crisis response team through Norton Sound of                   
  professionals that go out when suicide or some kinds of                      
  devastating thing effects the village.  These same people                    
  work closely with them.  They also worked closely with R.E.                  
  Oder, the new director of mental health.  She did herself go                 
  out there and give them several training sessions.  I think                  
  this team arised from the, uh, there were several suicides                   
  in this village and from that they decided to deal with the                  
  problem themselves, which I think is really good and they                    
  need more of that.                                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Thank you.  Representative Nordlund.                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  Diana or Diane?                                    
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  Diana.                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  I saw you nodding your head in the                 
  back when Loren was saying that it is easy to tell in                        
  smaller communities, especially in the villages, whether or                  
  not programs are effective.  I was wondering if you could                    
  comment on how you determine if your treatment programs are                  
  working or not.  Is it pretty much anecdotal or has there                    
  been some follow-up?                                                         
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  Okay.  We did, since I've been in this                       
  position that I've been in, which is about two years now, I                  
  did an in- depth study which asked them the kinds of things                  
  Loren went over, like basically what has changed in your                     
  life?  Have you been employed?  Have you been in trouble                     
  with the law?  Have you violated your probation?  Are you                    
  having trouble with issues that they had in treatment like,                  
  grief is the big thing, overcoming grief, and oppression,                    
  for here in this region is a very large obstacle in their                    
  treatment.  Through this, you know, I was amazed at the                      
  response and I was amazed at some of the feedback that they                  
  gave me.  From what I could gather from those that                           
  responded, 76 percent of our people were still sober.  Also,                 
  there has been, since I have been here doing this five                       
  years.                                                                       
                                                                               
  In the beginning there was a minimal amount of people at                     
  sobriety functions and also at support meetings.  Now we                     
  have to have bigger meeting places and we can have sobriety                  
  dances two or three times a month or once every week and                     
  people do come and enjoy themselves in an alcohol free                       
  environment.  So the people that come tell you that yes,                     
  they have changed.  So I see these people, most of them on a                 
  daily basis.                                                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  Ms. Freeman.  So, it's an ongoing                  
  situation you noted.  Is it something like being checked on                  
  a year later, two years later, three years later, or is it                   
  more informal than that?                                                     
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  I would say most of the people that receive                  
  treatment from this region, I would see them more than once                  
  in the last three years and most of these people come                        
  together and serve on committees and get involved.  You                      
  know, we are talking about people that have changed their                    
  lives so they are wanting to care, especially for that other                 
  person.  So, they make themselves available and I see them                   
  everywhere from the grocery store to taking classes with                     
  them at the local college.  It is a diverse kind of a thing.                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Diana, if you have any documentation on                    
  that study you did that indicated that 76 percent of your                    
  people are still sober, I'd sure like the committee to                       
  receive that if you can.                                                     
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  That's no problem. I have a copy and I'll go                 
  get one.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Okay, thank you very much Diana.  Before I                 
  go through the list again, I would like to recognize that we                 
  have several staff people from the offices of Representative                 
  MacLean, Senator Jacko and Senator Leman that are on the                     
  teleconference network listening in and taking information                   
  back to their respective legislators.  Okay, if I could go                   
  back then to Bethel and ask if Ardyce Turner is still there?                 
                                                                               
  ARDYCE TURNER:  Yes, I am.                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Welcome Ardyce.  We'd be happy to hear                     
  from you now.                                                                
                                                                               
  ARDYCE TURNER:  Okay.  My name is Ardyce Turner of the                       
  Substance Abuse Education and Prevention Department.  I                      
  started last year.  I transferred from the Substance Abuse                   
  Services, which is with the teenagers of the villages.  I am                 
  a recovering alcoholic myself.  It's been like four years                    
  myself.  I graduated from PATC in the outpatient program, so                 
  I would like to let Diana know there are people in Bethel                    
  who have maintained their sobriety each day and move on into                 
  bigger and better things to help other people.  But as far                   
  as when I'm with these out in the villages, I've heard other                 
  people saying village based workers, when I worked for the                   
  alcohol department there were 10 village alcohol education                   
  counselors.  Now there are nine.  There's one Hooper Bay                     
  office that funding was cut.  The things at villages are,                    
  there are at least two or three or even four villages                        
  besides their own, and they really need a lot of help out                    
  there.  It's theirs to fulfill for them, and as far as                       
  coming out of PATC, the clients that go back out to the                      
  villages need a lot of support.  And what I would like to                    
  see more of is more comprehensive support for them out in                    
  the villages because our main concern here with Substance                    
  Abuse Education and Prevention Department is maintaining                     
  sobriety or at least increasing the high rate of alcoholism,                 
  inhalant abuse and other drugs, as mentioned earlier.  But I                 
  really support any funding towards that, towards the                         
  villages because they are really in much need.                               
                                                                               
  As far as training also, there needs to be village alcohol                   
  board members, like in the past they used to come in and                     
  train.  I think I heard someone mention training.  They did                  
  come in and train, so there were people that did go back                     
  into their villages and contact the resource people in the                   
  village and they were one of them.  Like in the past, they                   
  did receive training and they would go back to the villages,                 
  having more help so they can help their local people once                    
  they return back to the villages.  So, I would just like to                  
  please, please ask for more funding towards the village                      
  based workers.  Thank you very much.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Ardys, thank you.  If I could ask you a                    
  question, or any of the other people there in Bethel, we                     
  haven't had any real discussion or testimony regarding the                   
  differences in some villages that opted to be dry and others                 
  that aren't.  Do you see that as a significant difference in                 
  the problems that exist in villages, or does it have any                     
  effect or not?                                                               
                                                                               
  ARDYCE TURNER:  Yes, it does.                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I'm going to assume that you mean by that,                 
  that if a village is dry that it has fewer problems than                     
  those that aren't?                                                           
                                                                               
  ARDYCE TURNER:  Yes, that is so.  Like in some villages, the                 
  ones that are dry, some of them have requested for support                   
  by talking to a support group or a substance abuse, such as                  
  alcohol, inhalant abuse, chewing tobacco.  We just started                   
  this year with chewing tobacco, which I am very glad that                    
  they requested for that.  There are different people out                     
  there who do try in their community to keep prevention as                    
  one of their main priorities.                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Thank you.  Representative Mulder?                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:  Yes.  I think that is really a                       
  pertinent question.  As you know we have been laboring                       
  throughout this state for a number of years.  The whole                      
  question is to go damp or dry and we really credit the                       
  village leaders for placing it such a priority.  But, I                      
  think it would be interesting from the committee's                           
  standpoint and from mine personally if one or other people                   
  would bring the community or the corporation, the Native                     
  corporations who have been pushing for it, if there is any                   
  statistical information to show what effect it's had so far.                 
  Maybe it's recency where it hasn't had time to take hold.                    
  But I think it's appropriate information because it's a                      
  radical departure, a radical change from the standard                        
  operating procedure in the way we've been treating                           
  alcoholism or drug abuse in our communities, and if that's                   
  the kind of change that is bringing on the desired effect,                   
  well then maybe those are some avenues we should be looking                  
  at.                                                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  We're sure going to see Director Jones,                    
  frantically writing things to do.                                            
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  Yes.  There was a study several years ago.  We                 
  will try to dig it out of our shelves on this.  It's not one                 
  that has gone through a lot of scrutiny in terms of                          
  villages.  But, if you do talk to the police officers, you                   
  talk to the village public safety officers, there is a                       
  significant difference.  I know in communities that are                      
  damp, there is a significant decrease in police calls, a                     
  decrease in some of the violence in the communities, that at                 
  least have been reported.  To my knowledge nobody has                        
  officially, in any of the villages, either local people,                     
  department of state troopers, ever taken a real serious look                 
  at it.  There was one done several years ago and we will dig                 
  out that study and let you know.                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND?:  If I could continue, Mr.                          
  Chairman?  Loren, have you worked conjunctively with our                     
  university to look at doing some studies along these lines.                  
  It seems like you have a wealth of information, or a                         
  resource there you might be able to tap into.  Being an old                  
  grad student, you're always looking for a good project to                    
  explore or cut your teeth on.  This certainly seems like an                  
  avenue that's on the cutting edge of, not only Alaska and                    
  our rural communities, but also throughout the United                        
  States.  This one would seem to be a natural.                                
                                                                               
  LOREN JONES:  There is within the University of Alaska,                      
  Anchorage, a center for alcohol and addiction studies that                   
  years ago did a considerable amount of research.  That has                   
  been cut back over the recent years with university                          
  reductions as well.  They primarily look for us for funding                  
  and we have not had the funding.  They are currently doing a                 
  research project on AIDS and on AIDS prevention that is                      
  funded by the National Institute of Drug Abuse in Anchorage.                 
   But, they are not active out in the community, nor is                       
  either the psychology or the sociology department to                         
  institute (inaudible) generally be available.  The                           
  university affiliated program within the University of                       
  Alaska, Anchorage, is active but it is active in the area of                 
  the developmentally disabled and also some of the mental                     
  health community.  It is an avenue we would like to be able                  
  to work with the university as well.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I think Sophie Nothstine just left the                     
  room so we'll have to skip over her real quickly and ask if                  
  Elizabeth Sunnyboy is still available to testify from                        
  Bethel?                                                                      
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH SUNNYBOY:  Yes.  This is Elizabeth Sunnyboy.  I've                 
  been with the last seven years with PATC for five years and                  
  in the substance abuse field many moons.  In listening this                  
  morning, as usual when we talk about alcohol problems and                    
  substance abuse problems, it is draining.  We hear that over                 
  and over.  What has made a difference, when I transferred                    
  over to community development program, what has made a                       
  difference in going to communities is that we have done a                    
  team approach, we have addressed problems and stayed with                    
  the community for a week, you know, in providing services.                   
  When they request services we provide those services and                     
  stay with the community like for a week and that has made a                  
  difference in many communities.  And what started off, like                  
  when we work with the village alcohol education counselors,                  
  in the beginning it was very stressful, very challenging.                    
  Many of our alcohol education counselors felt defeated                       
  because there seemed to be no support, nobody; even the                      
  court referred people refused to VAC's offices and what                      
  happened to that group of people, they decided to get                        
  creative with their ideas and to start making changes to                     
  attract more people.  What they did in the beginning was                     
  they talked with their elders.  They spent time with their                   
  elders, talked with their elders.                                            
  I've been hired to work with our people that have alcohol                    
  and drug problems but nobody's coming, and the elders                        
  suggested that's the problem, you're (inaudible) on your                     
  door, its alcohol or drug education counselor.  With the                     
  help of the elders and the village people, they got                          
  suggestions of how to make a difference in their community                   
  and with that they changed the name of the door, the name of                 
  their titles which made it more attractive.  Many people                     
  responded to them better.  And so just a name change made a                  
  difference with a lot of alcohol education counselors.  I                    
  mean with that avenue they were able to give more education                  
  prevention types of activities, alternative activities that                  
  include alcohol free dances and they got more responses from                 
  the community people because peoples are involved in their                   
  activities.                                                                  
                                                                               
  In our department of community holistic development program                  
  we have four positions, community youth advocates.  They are                 
  village based workers and they work mainly with students and                 
  young people in their communities to provide alternative                     
  activities in their communities that are alcohol and drug                    
  free.  These group of people, because (inaudible) errors in                  
  the beginning, they are instructed right from the beginning                  
  to utilize their elders, to utilize the people in their                      
  community... (end of side A)                                                 
                                                                               
  TAPE TWO, SIDE B                                                             
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  ...to use community aide advocates that are working in these                 
  villages have support, even from a home full of people, have                 
  their support in place because they work with people, they                   
  work with the young people, giving input affecting living                    
  together.  So, its causing all to, beginning with the                        
  village based workers, we are able to work with the                          
  community aides allowing the kids to be more effective in                    
  their communities.                                                           
                                                                               
  I understand also that mental health has started village                     
  based workers and they are in the process of getting                         
  screening, and so the earlier concern that Ardyse Turner and                 
  the other people that have spoken, if the support that these                 
  people need (inaudible) the training monies for the village                  
  based alcohol education counselors has been completely cut                   
  out and they don't have any training money whatsoever.  They                 
  have a handicap there because they need the additional                       
  training to be more effective in serving their people.  And                  
  so the training moneys there was completely cut off and                      
  that's the biggest concern that they have with the village                   
  alcohol education counselors funded under PATC and the                       
  community aides advocates funded under YKHC community                        
  holistic development program.                                                
                                                                               
  So that's the concern that we have is the training moneys                    
  that were cut off.  We are fortunate that the community aide                 
  advocates have no training moneys due to a declining and                     
  limited budget, we have to... One of my community aide                       
  advocates from Hooper Bay community was cut because we don't                 
  have the budgets to keep her on.  That's again, putting the,                 
  taking away from the community a service that is needed.                     
  Earlier, people were talking about activities and different                  
  villages that are making a difference in their community.                    
                                                                               
  As you all know, there's been a big history of suicide in                    
  one of our communities in the Yukon area.  The community                     
  today is doing different activities within that community.                   
  At first we used to go in on a crises approach, especially                   
  with the long history of suicides in that village community.                 
  Crisis counselors came one day and left and finally that                     
  community decided to have their own support group and to                     
  support people way after a crisis has happened, to work with                 
  family, to follow up on the family that had a loss, to work                  
  with that family.  That group is called the Snow Flakes                      
  Support Group.  It's really active, it does many activities                  
  with the community.  They provide workshops, they provide                    
  Eskimo dancing, honoring the young people for their first                    
  dances.  They provide basketball tournaments.  So, they're                   
  very active in that community.                                               
                                                                               
  They've had setbacks on several occasions where even after                   
  the suicides have gone down in that community, again they                    
  have had a couple of suicides later on, but the difference                   
  here is that the support is still there in that community                    
  and that's what's making a difference in some communities,                   
  so it goes back to empowering the people themselves.                         
                                                                               
  When we do go into communities that request us, most of our                  
  activities in community holistic development program is upon                 
  village requests for services and we honor that request and                  
  we do travel to that community and specifically ask, what                    
  are your needs, what do you want?  We honor that request.                    
  We just don't go in because some community is having                         
  problems.  We honor that request from a community to travel                  
  to a community and in this way it's like we're honoring a                    
  community and working with what their needs are.  That tells                 
  me the difference also.                                                      
                                                                               
  Cost effective suggestions I would make is for like                          
  treatment programs.  One of the things that I feel that                      
  strongly needs to happen is not to send one person from a                    
  community because again we're talking about lack of support                  
  in the community because of no education or prevention                       
  activities or maybe that community hasn't gotten active.  So                 
  one suggestion I would make is for treatment programs to get                 
  more than one person within a community to go into                           
  treatment, you know, as a group, so that group of people,                    
  when they go back, they will support themselves.  Or involve                 
  family members in that treatment because with no family                      
  involvement it's like you are just treating one part of the                  
  whole thing, just one part of that thing, and it doesn't                     
  usually work.  There is no balance.  It creates unbalance so                 
  that chaos again and when the person goes back they are                      
  right back in the chaos.  So if treatment program is going                   
  to be effective, they need to involve families, they need to                 
  involve cultural activities that are relevant to the people                  
  they're serving.  Vocational skills, parenting skills.                       
                                                                               
  Another person talked about addressing the grief and                         
  recovery process.  Only after you stop drinking is when you                  
  start becoming aware of unresolved griefs, and because those                 
  aren't addressed, the person will go back to drinking                        
  because that's too much to handle.  People need to know and                  
  address unresolved grief.  Work through those as a group,                    
  not on an individual basis.  Those are some of the things we                 
  try to address.                                                              
                                                                               
  I also have a question on this confidentiality.  We have                     
  problems with that left and right.  In schools, in villages,                 
  in treatment programs, a lot of times I question, you know,                  
  confidentiality on whose terms?  In one community that we                    
  went to and did a community workshop, three or four of the                   
  parents in that community were in tears because of                           
  confidentiality.  The teachers or the school counselors                      
  wouldn't tell the parents what kinds of problems their child                 
  was having in school or even at home so that maybe if they                   
  were involved they would correct it together.  At that                       
  meeting all the counselors talked about was no, we couldn't                  
  contact you because of confidentiality rules.                                
                                                                               
  If we're going to help families and if we're going to send                   
  the children back to the families, I think we need to reword                 
  or change, or whatever we need to do, especially on that                     
  confidentiality issue, because when they are an alcoholic or                 
  into drugs everybody knows that.  Maybe you're the one that                  
  denies you're the one that has the problem.  So                              
  confidentiality needs to be studied, worked (inaudible)                      
  recovery activity, people need to work together and address                  
  the problem and find solutions together.                                     
                                                                               
  Communities have resources that they can resolve the                         
  problem.  All we need to do is work with them and have them                  
  find their resources, their strengths, their ability to find                 
  solutions to their problem and they have that.  So in that                   
  sense we try to work with communities knowing that these                     
  communities have their resources, they have their strengths,                 
  they have their skills and they have knowledge to correct                    
  their problems and all we need to do is to be there to                       
  support them and to put this into action.                                    
                                                                               
  So these are the things I wanted to bring out.  And here in                  
  YK Bethel we also have a talk show that we hold every month.                 
  There are different agencies that hold talk shows and we do                  
  hook up to Nome station and we do education prevention,                      
  sharing through the neighbors.  We do different types of                     
  preventative education.  We talk about grief and recovery or                 
  different topics that people will listen to, ask questions                   
  about.  That also makes a difference in Bethel because KYUK                  
  radio station will also have monthly input of our activities                 
  and our jobs, what we do with providing services with                        
  communities.  In the community holistic development program                  
  we work with agencies, we work with villages, we work with                   
  private councils, we also work in the schools and these are                  
  with patients.  These are the types of activities we are                     
  doing at YKHC.                                                               
                                                                               
  One of the things that I will bring up which has created                     
  some confusion, and I feel is a contradicting message, is                    
  that the cuts that are happening to the social service                       
  programs, alcohol programs, human service programs.  You                     
  know, the contradicting message that I get is that the                       
  Governor is cutting these services that are needed in our                    
  communities and his wife is talking and seems supportive of                  
  these programs and that seems contradicting to me that he                    
  would cut and cut and cut these programs, but his wife is                    
  talking and seems to be supporting these kinds of programs.                  
  I look at that as contradicting.  You know, it's confusing,                  
  and so I just wanted to bring that out and you can put it on                 
  record if you want to.                                                       
                                                                               
  That has been one of my concerns, because like somebody else                 
  brought out, the Governor is really supporting economic                      
  growth, but if we don't have people in recover or support                    
  for people promoting recovery, its like its defeating what                   
  we are trying to do.  We need that support.  Thank you very                  
  much.                                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Well, Elizabeth, thank you very much.  I                   
  think it's very helpful to the committee to be able to hear                  
  from people like yourself.  If perhaps this isn't a totally                  
  unsolvable problem and we have people motivated like you                     
  that are out there working on it.  I would like to ask you                   
  one question if I may.  In your experience, do you think                     
  that there is a direct relationship between the village                      
  suicide problem and substance abuse?                                         
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH TURNER:  Yes, there is.  Also, there are also                      
  other factors involved in suicide.  There's language, the                    
  breakdown of language, the communication, there's                            
  traditional values that are not taught any more.  Whether                    
  our elders are speaking Yupiik, Indian people mostly speak                   
  English, and so the communication is cut off.  Our                           
  traditional activities are not often practiced in                            
  communities.  Maybe there's also denomination effects, you                   
  know, different church denominations that got a lot to do                    
  with the breakdown of communication, or even the breakdown                   
  in families.  In my own family line, relations are Russian                   
  Orthodox.  I have relations that are Catholic, I have                        
  relations that are married and these are all direct                          
  relations that are divided in religion.  You know, and so                    
  there's different denominations that have their own rules                    
  and own functions, and so again, that creates conflict                       
  within family units.                                                         
                                                                               
  Yes, alcohol and drugs will have suicide, but there's other                  
  things also that because of the pain or the hurt that lead                   
  people to drinking or to using drugs.                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Okay Elizabeth, thank you very much.  Now                  
  the very patient Sophie Nothstine.                                           
                                                                               
  SOPHIE NOTHSTINE:  Thank you.  I am Sophie Nothstine and I                   
  am from Prince of Whales and I have been very reluctant to                   
  talk on this microphone.  In order to give a class, I want                   
  to say that I'm going to have to get back to Alcoholics                      
  Anonymous and also it's so important to me because I have                    
  been sober 18 years and going on 19.  If you take, um, I was                 
  partially raised in Nome and the biggest places I've gotten                  
  drunk was in Nome.  (Inaudible).  Humility and I guess the                   
  futility.  (Inaudible).                                                      
                                                                               
  The only other thing I wanted to say is that the anarchy of                  
  the villages, (Inaudible) and that's the villages I went to                  
  recently, they have suicide in their village and they wanted                 
  to get some help for their village.  They want to learn how                  
  to do things for their own village.  But what I'm getting at                 
  is what everybody has mentioned already is the village                       
  people are going to help there.  The loss of culture, the                    
  loss education by the elders, is a very important factor as                  
  the loss of language and the loss of dances.  I have advised                 
  my Prince of Wales in dances a (Inaudible).                                  
                                                                               
  In order to get back to that, a person that is in the system                 
  needs education, spirituality.  The best way to get a                        
  feel... the treatment centers are very important.  I've                      
  gotten well by Alcoholics Anonymous and I am talking about                   
  the village people that go to treatment that go in and out.                  
  The people that are in the village are getting back to the                   
  people.  (Inaudible).  Some of them are (inaudible).  The                    
  whole village at a time is not well.  They have alcohol and                  
  drug problems and some of my relatives are not well.  Some                   
  of the village elders of mine sent the school system, and                    
  the village has the right when they are growing up.  I am                    
  65.  My elders quit teaching.  They have turned it over to                   
  the agencies to teach me and it needs to stop.  It needs to                  
  get back to the Native system and I don't know how to put                    
  that into words.                                                             
                                                                               
  Alcohol, I see some of the villages that are drunk, the                      
  whole town, from children to adults, and I have heard about                  
  the FAE and FAS and what I was hoping is that a FAE adult or                 
  child is very difficult for the treatment such as the                        
  (inaudible) FAE person cannot themselves be able to                          
  function.  They have to have somebody to help them and this                  
  is difficult.  (Inaudible)  I was thinking that the politics                 
  in order to help a person effectively in the agency,                         
  sometimes the agency gets lost in order to appear as they                    
  are okay in the system they use that, uh, they are working                   
  with that client.                                                            
                                                                               
  I guess that what I'm saying is that it is hard to work with                 
  a person in treatment centers.  We need village based things                 
  because the systems approach that does not recognize the way                 
  of traditional approaches.  All the things that I heard is                   
  (inaudible) third world country that is minorities, that is                  
  poor countries.  I didn't realize that the Native persons                    
  that are minorities, that is poor.  Mostly in my village                     
  when I was growing up my father was a big hunter and I was                   
  sent there as a very rich child and when I came to Nome I                    
  was considered a very poor child.                                            
                                                                               
  I guess getting back to court system I said earlier is that                  
  I believe in the court referral as the agency most qualified                 
  to work with parents.  (inaudible) to work with.  You don't                  
  have much to work with as a person who is sick.  The                         
  children, I like the idea of having the half-way houses here                 
  for the parents that are not ready to go back to the village                 
  because most of the village is still wet and some of the                     
  villagers are still drinking and staying in the bars and I                   
  don't believe...                                                             
                                                                               
  I have a doctor and I just met her last week and she said                    
  (inaudible) and if you have clients that you are dealing                     
  with even though you aren't drinking alcohol you are still                   
  wet.  To be alcohol free for a person who is dealing with a                  
  client it is important at his level of understanding to work                 
  the steps.  By the way, the Native ways are twelve steps of                  
  AA but they're not written and sometimes traditional                         
  (inaudible).  I think we need to educate some of our Native                  
  leaders to learn to be alcohol free.  (Inaudible)  It is a                   
  lot better.  They really ought to have a FAE or FAS child                    
  teaching a mother that is FAE, who is still drinking and                     
  drugging, (inaudible).                                                       
                                                                               
  And this is all hard news since white man has settled or                     
  Russians or so and it's still very (inaudible).  There's                     
  rules and regulations we are dealing with under the white                    
  system approach and I think we need to have more Native                      
  culture's approach too.  Also, helping with the VPSO, health                 
  aides, and our councils in the villages, I feel it is very                   
  important to mostly attach some of the other village people.                 
  I (inaudible) a person who is a board member might feel                      
  (inaudible) in order to deal with the problem of not being                   
  able to talk to someone or whatever it is that cultural                      
  transitioning seems to be the biggest factor for me to get                   
  drunk in the village.  Another thing to be overcome is                       
  resentment and anger toward people, places and things.                       
  Native way is to forgive, but Native people need to learn to                 
  speak up and say what they want.                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Sophie, thank you very much.  Your                         
  testimony is right from the heart and has behind it a lot of                 
  experience and observations.  One of the questions that has                  
  always plagued me as regards the alcohol problem in Alaska                   
  Native culture, and I would ask you, do you think alcohol                    
  abuse is the problem or is a symptom of the problem that                     
  Alaska Natives have, as you described in cultural                            
  difficulties and transitional values, traditional values,                    
  problems and self-esteem?                                                    
                                                                               
  SOPHIE NOTHSTINE:  I think the answer to your question is                    
  Native person like me have very low self-esteem and self-                    
  worth.  Until a person is shown that they're okay.  My first                 
  family is like people in Anchorage and in order to deal with                 
  them as one family I had to have somebody else to help out                   
  that is not of my immediate family.  I think that alcohol                    
  should be attacked first and later on the culture, depending                 
  on where the person is coming from, what they are dealing                    
  with.  They should deal with what is causing them to drink                   
  and use drugs or what is causing them to commit suicide.                     
                                                                               
  I think that alcohol is the first factor of the people.                      
  Children of alcoholics, the ones who have parents as                         
  alcoholic.  Alcoholics are the people who have never learned                 
  how to live.  They have to be shown how to hunt, dance, how                  
  to face life after this, learn how to talk, raise their                      
  children, little kids, one years old or two years old.  You                  
  have a 65 year old like me, there is a child that is still                   
  temper tantrum and some parents (inaudible) you really can't                 
  deal with it, it just comes out.  You have to learn how to                   
  put a stop to it.  Alcoholic is a person who has never                       
  learned how to deal with those things, so it's very                          
  difficult to learn how to deal with that person on step one.                 
  That's why they have drinking alcohol only once, the rest is                 
  learning how to live.                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  From one 55 year-old to another, thank you                 
  very much.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Just a few                 
  things here.  Representative Foster and I are co-chairs of                   
  Military and Veterans Affairs.  The offices of the National                  
  Guard.  As you know, the Guard in Alaska takes on many roles                 
  throughout the state, performing different missions in the                   
  urban areas as the rural areas.  One of the things that                      
  really struck me about the Guard in rural Alaska is that it                  
  provides a very strong role model for the kids growing up in                 
  the villages.  It seems they have a positive outlook.  It                    
  gives them something to aspire to and towards.  The kids and                 
  their values and self-worth, something that is very                          
  important for all of us, especially kids growing up, and I                   
  would welcome the Chairman and Eric for subsequent meetings,                 
  to call someone from the Guard.  They have a number of                       
  programs they are pursuing and looking at that I think are                   
  worthwhile for this committee to pursue and to look at and                   
  perhaps including recommendations for consideration and to                   
  give testimony about their programs because they work hand                   
  and glove with what Sophie was outlining.                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Very good suggestion.  Perhaps the October                 
  meeting in Fairbanks would be a good place to hear from                      
  them?                                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:  I think that would be fine.  I know                  
  they would love to talk about it because they are very                       
  excited about the things they are doing in the villages.                     
  They've had an uphill climb as well and they are beginning                   
  to see success through their efforts.  They've got some                      
  ideas on how to expand those efforts into the schools and                    
  into the instructional units.  That's real important because                 
  kids, when you get down to education, is the best way of                     
  preventative medicine and will save us a lot of cost in the                  
  long run.                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Very good.  I'll ask Eric to touch base                    
  with you and get the right names to invite to the Fairbanks                  
  meeting.  Sophie, thank you again.  That seems to be the end                 
  of the list of people who I had indicated that wanted to                     
  testify.  I now ask if there is anyone else in Bethel that                   
  wishes to testify?  Hearing none, how about Dillingham?  And                 
  Kotzebue?                                                                    
                                                                               
  UNIDENTIFIED:  No sir.                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Okay.  Thank you very much, all of you for                 
  your participation, it has been good.  Is there anyone else                  
  here in Nome that would like to address us?  There is.                       
  Please come forward, sir.                                                    
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  My name is Duffy Halladay.  I'm the chief                   
  manager at Turning Point Detox Center.  I'll try and be                      
  brief.  This has been a long meeting.  I have just two                       
  points I want to get across.  Both of these are pertinent                    
  information.  At the Turning Point Detox about 10 percent of                 
  our clients come from the emergency room and maybe 10                        
  percent are Title 47 who are on hold and perhaps, I'd say                    
  perhaps 80 percent are self admits, and in fact, some who                    
  are on hold, brought in by the police.                                       
                                                                               
  There are 16 villages that come into Nome, and after a few                   
  times from the police they will come in on their own.  It's                  
  like they do want to sober up.  We show alcohol videos and                   
  take people to the AA meetings on a nightly basis.                           
  (inaudible)  AA meetings are supposed to be separate, but in                 
  the villages people most of the time do not have AA meetings                 
  in the smaller villages to go to and I think that would be a                 
  real positive step.                                                          
                                                                               
  We have an AA register and we can give it to people and the                  
  clients are going back to their own villages.  They stay                     
  with us for five days and they are willing to go to AA                       
  meetings that are in the village.  Like I say, they are                      
  willing to follow, but they're not willing to start an AA                    
  meeting and it would be nice if all the small villages would                 
  have a group.  I don't know what the answer to that is.  It                  
  might be something the task force could look into, trying to                 
  get that going.                                                              
                                                                               
  Just recently, we've been open for four years in January,                    
  and in the last eight weeks the court system has started to                  
  give us court referrals, 72 hour holds, and we have had                      
  perhaps five in the last eight weeks.  It's working very                     
  well.  We're getting a whole different group of clientele                    
  with jobs, family, cars and basically they're having their                   
  drivers license held hostage.  It's the choice of going up                   
  to Anvill Mountain for 72 hours or to a detox center and so                  
  they're going to detox.  We're glad to have them too.                        
                                                                               
  One point I'd like the task force to consider is funding                     
  that's continually been cut, as you well know, and we're                     
  just taking on the additional responsibilities and                           
  (inaudible).  But we might have to consider that the court                   
  system is going to give us additional responsibility,                        
  hopefully there would not be a cut in funding in order to                    
  offset the 72 hour hold.                                                     
                                                                               
  I've been in Nome all this time and I'm not familiar with                    
  Mr. Jones, but I just never work (inaudible) he definitely                   
  understands things from the trenches, he understands where                   
  the problems are, so in the future hearings you can take                     
  testimony from everybody, but if you just scratch your head                  
  and figure out what to you, we can certainly speak for our                   
  detox center because we do understand the issues.  We are                    
  hitting the nail on the head quite often and that's all I                    
  have to say.                                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Thank you.  As one of the people who used                  
  to bring in the orangutans I can sympathize with you and the                 
  transaction.  Representative Mulder?                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Duffy,                     
  quick question on the percentage.  You said that 80 percent                  
  were self- admit.  Of those 80 percent, how many of those                    
  would you consider to be chronic repeaters; you know, those                  
  people who are coming in and self-admitting themselves                       
  repeatedly?                                                                  
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  These are people who are trying to get                      
  well.  I wouldn't say that is a problem according to                         
  percentage, but the first words out of the board of                          
  directors is that they did not want to be a revolving door,                  
  whereas when the bar closed down they would come and sleep                   
  and then get up in the morning and leave.  We don't send                     
  people away, but we are asking them to commit themselves for                 
  five days.  That's pretty big if they want to go drink                       
  tomorrow.  It's like they are going to go to AA meetings and                 
  such and so they are going to weed themselves out if they                    
  are just looking for a bed.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:  Would you say that half of that 80                   
  percent are repeaters more than twice.  In other words, been                 
  in there three or more times.                                                
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  Certainly.  We do have some that I know                     
  their birthdays.  They are in there quite often, but staying                 
  sober for five days, and there are usually two counselors                    
  per shift, and they get along with one or the other, they                    
  would open and talk to somebody.  When we first started bed                  
  utilization and the referrals, about 75 percent we could                     
  actually refer on to Northern Lights or the other treatment                  
  centers.  Where they went from there, whether they walked                    
  away or they complete it or not, or you would have 75                        
  percent who would just go out the door and 25 percent of                     
  those who would actually try some treatment.                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Duffy, if you wanted to try to evaluate                    
  your system and you referred people on to Northern Lights,                   
  can Northern Lights tell you what your people did, or is                     
  that confidential?                                                           
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  Yes, they do.  We have a reciprocating                      
  agreement.  The clients sign confidentiality and understand                  
  that we do the follow-ups and such, and so that is not a                     
  problem.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I think you are one of the few communities                 
  that (inaudible) the problem.  Make sure I understand, when                  
  you say that you're getting, from whom are you getting the                   
  referrals, rather than the 72 hour hold, the court or...?                    
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  The bulk of them are the police department                  
  who will take people in Title 47, 12 hour hold.                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  But the 72 hour hold.  That has to process                 
  through a court?                                                             
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  Yes.  We just recently started that and the                 
  judges were giving the choice, either you are going out to                   
  Anvill Mountain Correctional Center or you are going to the                  
  detox center.                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  But this is the Title 47 as opposed to a                   
  sentence like DWI or something like that?                                    
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  It is a DWI, and we have to report back to                  
  the court, did they spend 72 hours they spent with us, how                   
  many substance abuse videos did they watch, and did they go                  
  the AA meetings?  We don't fiscally restrain them if they                    
  want to walk out before the 72 hours is up.  Basically, we                   
  just report back to the court and the court decides to give                  
  the license back, or whatever.  It's working very well so                    
  far.  In fact, I believe Bethel, no Kotzebue's, detox center                 
  felt it was working well with our detox center so.                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Let me suggest that if I understand you                    
  correctly that it's a court referral as an alternative to 72                 
  hours in jail for DWI that you talk with DOC because they                    
  should be helping you out with the cost of your program.                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER?:  I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but I urge                 
  you (inaudible).  We were all involved in the alternative                    
  sentencing for DWI's.  Is this a relative new program,                       
  Duffy?  Is it an outgrowth of that legislation, and                          
  basically are you acting as a so-called halfway house?  Or                   
  are you providing an alternative location for sentencing                     
  instead of a correctional institution?                                       
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  Correct.  I was told at the last staff                      
  meeting there's a repeat offender who was there fourteen                     
  days.  What my concern is that down in the states they're                    
  getting really tough on them, and Alaska as well may change                  
  the laws.  My brother who's working on the Oklahoma for six                  
  months, and he gets to go home on weekends to see his wife                   
  and four children.  My point is that Alaska may in the                       
  future, at least on DWI's, and it will affect our program,                   
  and you need to consider that for your funding.                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Duffy, thank you.  Diana, please help us.                  
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  I was involved in a meeting with Judge                       
  Kenley, Magistrate Jayder and Susie Kanler and we came up                    
  with a vehicle to provide services for DWI offender in lieu                  
  of...  Most often they would insist they do 72 hours and                     
  attend five AA meetings.  Well,.... (end of tape)                            
                                                                               
  TAPE THREE, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  ...by law that they would do.  So not only are they housed                   
  there, they're watching videos and they are working on a                     
  treatment plan and so that (inaudible) that comes from.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  But that plan is as opposed to having to                   
  go down to the mountain for a few days?                                      
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  That's correct.                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  That's great that someone's doing that.                    
  Representative Nordlund?                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND:  What does it cost you to keep                      
  these folks in for 72 hours?  Part of the idea of the bill                   
  Representative Mulder sponsored was to, for a low cost                       
  sentencing alternative to DWI offenders with the idea that                   
  it would cost the state less money, as well as provide more                  
  treatment.  One, what is it costing you to hold these people                 
  and treat them?  And two, are you developing any new                         
  treatment methods that might be more appropriate to treat                    
  the DWI?                                                                     
                                                                               
  DUFFY HALLADAY:  Basically we funded through the state                       
  Division of Alcoholism and they are treated as our regular                   
  clients.  We have a sliding fee scale and wherever they fit                  
  in there, and if they don't have a penny in their pockets,                   
  we will still let them in.  We don't turn people away.  It's                 
  new for us and we are still working things out.  The court                   
  has said (inaudible) if the person said up and the answer                    
  was no, they got a bench warrant and I suppose they are                      
  going to Anvil Mountain.  You had the choice and you didn't                  
  show up.  We just report back to the court and they take it                  
  from there.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  Diana?                                                     
                                                                               
  DIANA FREEMAN:  We have two bills by Corrections that we                     
  initiated negotiations in January, me and the former                         
  director of the program, and now we have in place since July                 
  two pay beds: one is for furloughs and one is for                            
  probationary people.  Throughout I had noted that we would                   
  get a lot of furloughs and those people don't pay their                      
  bills.  So we initiated a price of 49 dollars a day.  That's                 
  what we get to house them.                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER, REPRESENTATIVES NORDLUND, MULDER:                           
  Discussion.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER:  I might also remind this committee                   
  though that part of the bill provided that people pay for it                 
  themselves when they are financially available, if they're                   
  not, the court is able to go in and tap their permanent fund                 
  dividend, and if that has been tapped then they come back to                 
  the state.  By and large, that 49 dollars, as opposed to                     
  what it is at Anvil Mountain, 49 (inaudible).                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER:  I see no one else here.  I ask one more                    
  time if there is anyone else on the teleconference network                   
  that wishes to testify?  I see none.  Let me say then that                   
  we will conclude the teleconference and the committee                        
  hearing.  I appreciate very much the committee members, the                  
  task force members, and all those people who testified.  I                   
  think we have had a very good beginning and gotten some good                 
  regional information from this district of our state and                     
  will continue to gather that as we move around and put it                    
  all together when we get to Juneau and see if we can't come                  
  up with something.  Again, thank you very much and that will                 
  be it.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Meeting adjourned at 1:04 p.m.                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects